Date:         Fri, 18 Mar 2005 23:08:22 -0500
Reply-To:     Mike Collum <collum@VERIZON.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Mike Collum <collum@VERIZON.NET>
Subject:      Re: CV joint theory: long
In-Reply-To:  <200503190351.j2J3pJpa006021@ceres.aros.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

How certain are you that you didn't reverse the axle when you
reinstalled it ... putting the joint that used to be on the outside on
the inside?

Mike

Anonymous Digest wrote:
> I would like to just solicit opinions from those who certainly know CV
> joints better than I do. One of mine failed on a return trip from the
> deserts of southern Utah last November. (I prefer to visit, rather than
> sit on the toilet and just  think about it<g>) Since I had no plans until
> this spring, it has been a slow and boring process to get my mind ready to
> do the job.
>
> There really is a question at the end of all of this.....
>
> After limping it home,  I  found thatthe inside joint (at the trans) was
> major whacked, as in it moved up and down, and front to back, a whole lot,
> so that even I could tell it was hosed.
>
> Being financially strapped, I was given a used axle with a pair of working
> joints with the idea of having them get me by until I could afford all new
> joints. I pulled the axle, and was astonished that the bad joint even got
> me home. Those really are tough old birds. Burned, brassed, pitted,
> deformed, and looking like they almost were ready to melt, I knew I was
> fixing the problem. I bagged the whole mess, and put it away.
>
> The replacement set had one pretty new joint, and one that was probably an
> original, but it did not appear to be pitted badly, or show anything else
> that would make me think it was a problem. I cleaned both, shined them up,
> and with grease from the new boot kits, I packed em and replaced both
> boots with new. The older joint did not require a puller, as it pretty
> much just slid off the axle, which I thought to be odd, but I forged
> ahead.
>
> I installed the axle, and was dismayed to drive the van and hear a clunk,
> clunk that increased with the wheel speed. The noise  was similar to the
> sound from the really bad, inside joint, but it was nowhere near as
> pronounced, so I grabbed the axle, and found that now the outside joint,
> the older of the two replacements, was "loose." Loose means that I can
> move it up and down, front to back, just a smidge. Not a lot, not at all
> near how the bad one behaved, but enough that it made a knocking sound as
> I moved it, steel against steel. Now I am really confused, as it was an
> okay joint by all the definitions and comments I have gotten from so many
> great sources.
>
> This caused me to wander off into 'bad wheel bearing land' :-) as jacking
> the van and moving the wheel got me thinking it was a bearing. If the axle
> was moving, maybe it was the bearing that was shot, and not the joint?
>
> Took it to my trusted mechanic for inspection and emissions testing, and
> asked him to look at it. He told me the outside CV joint was bad. I bet he
> has seen  hundreds bad joints in his business, so I believed him. He also
> assured me that the slop in the wheel was not excessive, and not a bearing
> issue.
>
> Okay, being expert in pulling the joints, <g> no big thing to pull the
> axle, and put the joint back on the outside that was there originally, and
> considered to be 'good'
>
> I did that today/tonight. Cleaned up the joint that was going on the
> outside, where it came from. It looked okay, not new, but it met the
> criteria that so many have pointed out as acceptable. Got it all back
> together, and pulled on the outside, replaced joint. Hurray! No movement.
> But, now much to my dismay,  the inside, nearly new joint, now moves up
> and down and front to back, just like the outside one I had just replaced.
> Not much, but it makes a definite knock sound. Now I am really confused as
> it was rock solid before I pulled it off a few hours ago. I didn't do
> anything with the joint, just put a bag on it.
>
> With it all buttoned up, I took it for a drive, expecting to hear the
> knocking, but I was surprised to hear noise, so the 'loose' joint is not
> so loose as to knock, but I am sure its on the verge, as the axle on the
> driver's side, which is untouched through all of this, does not move at
> all.
>
> Now that may be too much information, badly presented, but this morning,
> the inside joint was solid, and did not  move, while the outside did move
> slightly and I could hear steel knocking against steel. Not a lot, but it
> was there. I replaced that joint, and now it no longer moves, but now the
> one on the inside is doing it.
>
> There, that is a long story, but here, finally, is my question:
>
> What is loose? I have seen it now on three joints. What the heck is it
> that is moving, and knocking together? Its a solid knock, not pronounced,
> and not apparently qualifying as bad yet, but still, it ought not do that
> at all.
>
> I stare at the joints, I look at pictures, and I cannot seem to understand
> what it is that is moving up and down, making that sound. Anyone have a
> theory, or a fact to explain what this is? I am okay with my repairs for
> now, as they are quiet, and new joints all around are in the future
> budget, but I am still way curious what the heck is actually loose, what
> exactly is moving and knocking against what? I can see having major slop,
> like the original, really bad joint, but this small movement and what it
> is, really has me curious. Having become intimate with the joints, having
> spent time rubbing  that wonderful CV grease on them, <g> I am unable to
> picture what is actually loose, and causing the sound I hear.
>
> I would be interested in hearing what anyone thinks are the parts in the
> joint that are 'knocking' together when I move the axle.
>
> Anyway, if you read this far, I thank you for  your time. Any thoughts  or
> theories are welcomed.
>
> John
>