Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:58:52 -0500
Reply-To: Don in North Carolina <Don_Dixon@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Don in North Carolina <Don_Dixon@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Another Vanagon Burns Up
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John,
I believe that you meant "Halon" as opposed to "Halogen". Halon is an
extremely effective firefighting agent, but has been all but eliminated due
to its effect on the ozone layer. It has become extremely expensive, and it
is difficult to find a place to charge the extinguishers.
CO2 is a poor choice for an extinguishing agent in cars. The rapid cooling
effect will quickly crack your engine block. The current agent of choice on
the car racing circuit is AFFF. You can get a small (1 to 2 gallon) system
for about $350, with two nozzles. AFFF is non-corrosive (unlike many dry
chemical agents), and will clean up with water. It is very effective on
Class B (oil) fires, effective on Class A (wood, paper, etc.), and somewhat
effective on Class C (electrical) fires.
Don in Reidsville, NC
1988 Vanagon GL (Sylvia)
"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Fri 01 April 2005 13:35
Subject: Re: Another Vanagon Burns Up
I use to work on aircraft that had CO2 fire extinguishing systems
installed in the engine nacelles. This was years ago, on piston engine
powered aircraft. Those installations consisted of a metal plumbing
routed into certain areas to conduct CO2 to the area. There the tubes
had holes that would allow the CO2 to exit into the fire zones. The
sudden discharge of CO2 drops the temperature way below freezing thereby
lowering the ignition point of whatever was burning, as well as
displaces the air flow containing oxygen. In most cases this stopped
any fire. Not always, but most times.
I have often wondered about the possibility of installing such a system
in the engine compartment of the Vanagon. It would seem that a copper
pipe/tube loop inside the engine bay, with a connection to a Big CO2
cylinder under the back seat or in the rear somewhere, with a manual or
electromechanically controlled valve, whose control - either a button or
pull-cable handle - would be within reach of the driver while seated a
the wheel, would be a viable - albeit somewhat expensive - solution to
the fire protection problem. It may not be so expensive really, when
compared to the investment made in say cherrying out a Westy.
If this were done, there would be no need to open either the rear
fuel/oil access hatch or to remove/raise the engine hatch cover.
Halogen might be a better choice of gas over the CO2, but I understand
it is hard to get nowadays.
Regards,
John Rodgers
88 GL Driver
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