Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:35:19 -0600
Reply-To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Another Vanagon Burns Up
In-Reply-To: <698D2FE331FC794BB994CD03DFB28589DD908A@gmgexdc02.iogmg.ioroot.tld>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I use to work on aircraft that had CO2 fire extinguishing systems
installed in the engine nacelles. This was years ago, on piston engine
powered aircraft. Those installations consisted of a metal plumbing
routed into certain areas to conduct CO2 to the area. There the tubes
had holes that would allow the CO2 to exit into the fire zones. The
sudden discharge of CO2 drops the temperature way below freezing thereby
lowering the ignition point of whatever was burning, as well as
displaces the air flow containing oxygen. In most cases this stopped
any fire. Not always, but most times.
I have often wondered about the possibility of installing such a system
in the engine compartment of the Vanagon. It would seem that a copper
pipe/tube loop inside the engine bay, with a connection to a Big CO2
cylinder under the back seat or in the rear somewhere, with a manual or
electromechanically controlled valve, whose control - either a button or
pull-cable handle - would be within reach of the driver while seated a
the wheel, would be a viable - albeit somewhat expensive - solution to
the fire protection problem. It may not be so expensive really, when
compared to the investment made in say cherrying out a Westy.
If this were done, there would be no need to open either the rear
fuel/oil access hatch or to remove/raise the engine hatch cover.
Halogen might be a better choice of gas over the CO2, but I understand
it is hard to get nowadays.
Regards,
John Rodgers
88 GL Driver
Aaron Pearson wrote:
>so apart from the preventive maintainenece, what's the best way to handle a fire? i hope i'll be able to smell smoke/fuel, or maybe some other driver will wave to me. what happens after i pull over? i can't imagine that i'll be able to calmly open the hatch and engine lid and spray my extinguisher around... everything will be a mass of heat, smoke, and confusion, right? I have this nice new extinguisher in the back of my van, but i haven't the slightest idea how to handle a fire. any advice from someone who has handled this before?
>
>aaron
>'87 syncro gl
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jimt [mailto:camper@TACTICAL-BUS.INFO]
>Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:06 AM
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: Another Vanagon Burns Up
>
>
>Donšt forget to check out your "other" vehicles. There was another vehicle fire out on the road yesterday. I knew the tow operator and he let me look at the engine compartment before he hauled it off. The officer let him hold for a minute after he told him that I have been doing some private research into engine fires. (nothing to publish that hasnšt been said in here and other lists). I was able to easily follow a funnel shaped spray/fire pattern back to a hole in the high pressure side of the fuel injection system. This particular vehicle was a 96 jeep 4L that had the same system as my daughters. Examined hers and found what action/cause the leak could have come from. Be very careful when doing maintenance around your metal fuel lines. Especially where they bend. (Again this is on any vehicle) I havent seen but a single burnt bug/bus/vanagon in the last year here locally but have examined close to 30 vehicles burnt out in the last year. That 96 and a 2004 (under litigation) were the only vehicles made after 94 that I had examined. Anything with a fuel system made before MTBE and alcohol needs to be rigorously inspected at all rubber fittings and hoses. Make sure metal lines are not within 1/4 inch of any metal surface unless held out away from it in a way that they cannot make contact under vibrations.
>
>Let us please keep the BBQ in the BBQ.
>
>jimt
>
>
>On 4/1/05 6:50, "Stan Wilder" <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET> wrote:
>
>
>
>>In an empty van or bus the steel lid will definitely be better... even
>>if the paint burns, it won't rapidly touch-off the whole van. --
>>Andrew Grebneff
>>--------------- Clip -----------------------
>>One of our list members had a fire while his wife was driving his 82
>>Air Cooled Sun Roof Vanagon. The magnesium fan shroud caught fire and
>>the local fire dept gave it a few shots of pure oxygen with a side of
>>O2. I bought the transmission and it was still OK but the engine case
>>had oil galleries that were weeping from heat, the oil cooler and
>>mount had about melted off. The rear engine yoke had totally liquefied
>>leaving just the bolts.
>>I couldn't save the heads because some of the fins were welded with other
>>trash.
>>Lots of luck ever bringing a burned van back from the depths.
>>
>>Stan Wilder
>>Engine Ceramics
>>214-352-4931
>>www.engineceramics.com
>>
>>
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>>
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