Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:37:08 EDT
Reply-To: FrankGRUN@AOL.COM
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Frank Grunthaner <FrankGRUN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: On TD and TDi Exhaust manifolds, mounts and risks!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Shawn,
Some answers imbedded in the following:
In a message dated 4/24/05 6:35:18 PM, swright@zuiko.sls.bc.ca writes:
> This is very interesting news. I recall reading this on Alistair's site
> some time ago, but
> did not make the connection at the time, perhaps because it was a gas engine
> being
> discussed, and I did not realize the T3 is the same turbo used in my Jetta
> engine. A
> few questions however:
>
Note that the T3 came in many A/R and C/R ratios as well as different exhaust
manifold mounts. The recent KKK and GT turbos mounted on the AAZ and 1Z
engines are smaller and are a more efficient design, particularly the VNT and VGT
designs.
>
> 1. The are no pics of the manifold with turbo installed, so I'm trying to
> visualize what it
> would look like. It appears that in a 50 degree install, the axis of the
> turbo shaft would
> be roughly across the van from left to right, is this right? So the exhaust
> exits under
> the engine directed to the right side, hence the need for a tight 90 degree
> downpipe?
> Or is it the other way?
>
Sorry about that, thought I had photographed the turbo installed also. The
turbo indeedv mounts in a horizontal axis from right to left. As I have stated
before, I mounted the turbo exhaust port next to the block sidewall. The cast
90 degree elbow was convenient, directed the output to the front of the van and
gave a nice mount point for the oxygen sensor for the gasoline install. It
also moved the hottest component away from the hydraulic engine mount; just a
precaution as I also use SS heat shields as well. I run the exhaust pipe forward
to dual mufflers mounted behind the gas tank (now fuel tank again). I then
bring the exhaust pipe from the last muffler (passenger side) out to the rear
exiting near the original muffler output. This mimics the SA approach and just
eliminates exhaust noise. Gets a little tight with the diesel heater, propane
system and spare fuel tank but it fits in the end. BTW, the turbo can be
mounted in the other direction also ... only extended heavy breathing exercises to
distinguish the two. I also felt the intercooler and air plumbing was a cleaner
solution with the exhaust blockside.
>
> 2. The Jetta TD version of the T3 has a trapezoidal 4 bolt pattern, which
> may affect
> the adapter design - in your square 4 bolt adapter, it appears 2 of the 3
> triangular bolt
> holes line up with the 4 bolt pattern, is this right? Have you compared
> fitment with a
> Jetta 1.6TD style 4 bolt T3?
>
From my perspective, these are one and the same. An adapter plate with common
and non-common holes. I had also done adapter plates for the rectalinear T3
exhaust mount flange to the VW QTD manifold. NBD! Just mock-up the plate and
cut-off the excess to save your fingers and add a bit of feigned finesse! I've
checked the VW Jetta 4-bolt flange and was unimpressed with cross-section, but
didn't intend to use it. Once you extrude the flange drawings in your CAD
program, a judicious use of a spline will make anything fit!
>
> 3. How common are these 3A manifolds? Do you have have any for sale?
>
The 3A single port manifold is very similar to the FOX manifold. They should
be everywhere. I could sell some of the excess stock, and photograph the
installation, but with conferences, fiels trips and instrument builds, I can't
settle in the garage until the end of June.
>
> Your timing is good and bad - last night I had nearly resolved that I would
> cut my cast
> mount and attach steel bar stock to lower the rubber mount stud by 1", as I
> had
> nearly convinced myself that this change was somewhat reversible, ie: I
> could regain
> the original mount position, if not the look, by adjusting the bar stock
> with spacers,
> etc.
>
> Now you present me another option to avoid cutting! Looks like I will spend
> another
> few days pondering my options.
>
>
I like to think that I specialize in bad timing!
Good luck,
Frank Grunthaner
| 
