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Date:         Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:57:47 -0500
Reply-To:     John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Subject:      Re: Diesel vs. Gas
Comments: To: Gabriel Ross <gabeross@ORO.NET>
In-Reply-To:  <5.0.2.1.2.20050428105634.00b5c568@pop3.oro.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Just a little while back, thee was on television, a man who was an oil analyst. He had worked on the shale oil fields research project out west. It was proved that shale oil extraction was a viable process, but at that point in history was not economical - I think oil prices back then were in the neighborhood of $12-$15/barrel. He said that now with prices being over $50/barrel it was economically feasible to extract the oil from the shale oil fields. And - heres the good part - the studies of the region showed that there was enough oil in the shale fields to last the USA at present consumption for three hundred years, without importing a single barrel of foreign oil.

In so far as oil availability - has anybody seen any gas lines at the the gas stations? No? Wonder why!!! Could it be there is no oil shortage, only manipulation by those who stand to benefit by such?? We are fighting a war for oil - you had better believe it, but not that we were ever going to step in and just take it...that's now our way. And there were other good and valid reasons for the US to go into Iraq - I'm not faulting that either, but as part of the war package, we were going to make dadgum certain we had dibs on the supply when it started flowing again.

Bottom line??? There's plenty of oil. We just can't crack it fast enough. to satisfy our appetite. Reminds me of the time I took my young son out to eat Appalacacola Bay oysters on the half shell. The little guy had a big appetite for those little succulant shellfish, and he could gobble them down faster than the attendant could shuck them. So it is with our SUV's and other fuel guzzling monsters.

So it is we are guzzling fuels faster than they can be produced and demand being greater than supply - the price is going up.

While we are scrambling to get more oil at a lower cost, we are missing the fact that we have major environmental problems tied directly to the ever increasing oil consumption. If we do not get a grip on this, and bring this under control in a sustainable way, we are in for some very rough times as human beings, if not outright disaster.

Regards,

John Rodgers 88 GL driver Gabriel Ross wrote:

> OK, I've got to jump in here. The industry is acknowledging that > fossil fuels will run out IN OUR LIFETIME. More refineries might hold > down prices but does nothing about this underlying issue. As the oil > and natural gas runs out, it becomes harder and harder, and thus more > expensive, to obtain. Guess who will bear the costs? Using closed army > bases is a good solution to the problem of refinery placement, I > agree, but why aren't we looking very, very hard at alternative fuels > and alternative energy generation? Do a google search on "peak oil." > Five years ago, the major players were calling anybody talking about > peak oil foolish and crazy environmentalists; now, their own analysts > are saying there is a problem looming. (With sarcasm) Do you really > think so? Think on this: before the "discovery" of oil, the planet > supported around two billion people. Now, the planet's population is > over six billion. What do you imagine will happen when agri-business > doesn't have the energy to continue current production levels, or get > product to market? > > I'm with John Rogers who said, "Careful, careful, careful......it's > taking all I can do to keep my soapbox under the table and rant podium > in the closet." > > Gabriel > Nor CA Sierras > '84 Westy > > > At 11:43 AM 4/28/2005 -0600, jimt wrote: > >> Interesting thing on the news last night. Seems most of the US >> refineries >> are right at max output and some are actually pushing past safety >> limits to >> meet demand. No new refineries have been built since the 70s. The >> restrictions on where and how to build them has made it way to >> expensive to >> build a new one and takes to many years to do the paperwork. To build >> a new >> refinery they would need a crystal ball that sees ten years into the >> future >> and hundreds of millions to fight the green people and meet the current >> placement laws. Part of the Bush fuels rules proposed would open old Air >> Bases for development by refiners. This actually makes sense because >> a lot >> of these bases were also on the pipe lines. >> Jimt >> >> >> >> On 4/28/05 10:21, "Jim Felder" <felder@KNOLOGY.NET> wrote: >> >> > Don't forget that China is getting big into agribusiness and is an >> > exporter of farm goods now. Of course all that runs on diesel, as it >> > does in India, to name two growing, diesel-based economies. And with >> > snow just off the ground in parts of the US, a cold spring also pits >> > heating oil against diesel supplies. >> > >> > Jim >> > >> > On Apr 28, 2005, at 9:48 AM, Brent Berisford wrote: >> > >> >> The bottom line. >> >> Diesel in the past has always been the better value. Trucking firms >> >> and train better bang for the buck. The largest problem with diesel >> >> and cost at the moment is that the war machine runs on diesel not >> >> gasoline.We have created a demand by supporting the war in the middle >> >> east. Just my 2 cents. The demand for diesel high mileage cars also >> >> proves that diesel is the smarter choice at least in my local >> commuter >> >> market. >> >> Brent >> >> >> > >> > >> >> •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• >> jimt >> Planned insanity is best. >> Remember that sanity is optional. >> http://www.tactical-bus.info (tech info) >> http://www.westydriver.com > > >


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