Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 23:00:52 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Gas
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050501181757.05387af0@incoming.verizon.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I agree the Insight is a limited use vehicle. However, if all one needs
is to commute to/from work, it is a cost effective solution. As for
performance, most of our Vanagons will not keep up with it, especially a
Syncro. As for safety, it has to meet the standards and our Vanagons are
not a match for an Escalade or Suburban either. For now, my 20 mile
commute is usually done in an '88 Fox that I acquired last year with
only 14,470 miles on it. It just turned 30k last week. My last tank was
almost 32 mpg. As for safety, this car makes a Jetta feel like a luxury
sedan and I think the Insight would protect me much better in a crash.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Barry [mailto:krbarry@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:22 PM
To: Dennis Haynes; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Gas
An Insight is a pretend little car with absolutely no room, minimal
power
and skinny low rolling resistance (almost no grip) tires that will let
go
and have you sliding around if you try to do something crazy like change
direction or try to execute a high-speed lane change. Of course, high
speeds are hard enough to come by. And you are probably dead if you
attempt
to occupy the same space at the same time as a more substantial car;
like
say , a Mini Cooper.
Small cars are great but that Insight was a science experiment.
Remember the 3-cyl Geo Metro, erstwhile Geo Sprint. 50 mpg highway but
at
least it didn't pretend to be anything.
Had to have guts to take that on the Long Island Expressway.
At 11:31 PM 4/28/2005, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>So lets all get those Honda Insights to go to commute. A guy at work
who
>really walks the environmental talk is now on his second one. He claims
>the first one averaged 67 mpg over 90K miles he had it. Only
maintenance
>was fluid changes and tires. The regenerative braking even saves the
>brake pads. He also has solar power on his house set up to sell excess
>back to the utility company.
>
>Dennis
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>Of John Rodgers
>Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:58 PM
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Gas
>
>Just a little while back, thee was on television, a man who was an oil
>analyst. He had worked on the shale oil fields research project out
>west. It was proved that shale oil extraction was a viable process, but
>at that point in history was not economical - I think oil prices back
>then were in the neighborhood of $12-$15/barrel. He said that now with
>prices being over $50/barrel it was economically feasible to extract
the
>oil from the shale oil fields. And - heres the good part - the studies
>of the region showed that there was enough oil in the shale fields to
>last the USA at present consumption for three hundred years, without
>importing a single barrel of foreign oil.
>
>In so far as oil availability - has anybody seen any gas lines at the
>the gas stations? No? Wonder why!!! Could it be there is no oil
>shortage, only manipulation by those who stand to benefit by such?? We
>are fighting a war for oil - you had better believe it, but not that we
>were ever going to step in and just take it...that's now our way. And
>there were other good and valid reasons for the US to go into Iraq -
I'm
>not faulting that either, but as part of the war package, we were going
>to make dadgum certain we had dibs on the supply when it started
flowing
>again.
>
>Bottom line??? There's plenty of oil. We just can't crack it fast
>enough. to satisfy our appetite. Reminds me of the time I took my young
>son out to eat Appalacacola Bay oysters on the half shell. The little
>guy had a big appetite for those little succulant shellfish, and he
>could gobble them down faster than the attendant could shuck them. So
it
>is with our SUV's and other fuel guzzling monsters.
>
>So it is we are guzzling fuels faster than they can be produced and
>demand being greater than supply - the price is going up.
>
>While we are scrambling to get more oil at a lower cost, we are missing
>the fact that we have major environmental problems tied directly to the
>ever increasing oil consumption. If we do not get a grip on this, and
>bring this under control in a sustainable way, we are in for some very
>rough times as human beings, if not outright disaster.
>
>Regards,
>
>John Rodgers
>88 GL driver
>Gabriel Ross wrote:
>
> > OK, I've got to jump in here. The industry is acknowledging that
> > fossil fuels will run out IN OUR LIFETIME. More refineries might
hold
> > down prices but does nothing about this underlying issue. As the oil
> > and natural gas runs out, it becomes harder and harder, and thus
more
> > expensive, to obtain. Guess who will bear the costs? Using closed
army
> > bases is a good solution to the problem of refinery placement, I
> > agree, but why aren't we looking very, very hard at alternative
fuels
> > and alternative energy generation? Do a google search on "peak oil."
> > Five years ago, the major players were calling anybody talking about
> > peak oil foolish and crazy environmentalists; now, their own
analysts
> > are saying there is a problem looming. (With sarcasm) Do you really
> > think so? Think on this: before the "discovery" of oil, the planet
> > supported around two billion people. Now, the planet's population is
> > over six billion. What do you imagine will happen when agri-business
> > doesn't have the energy to continue current production levels, or
get
> > product to market?
> >
> > I'm with John Rogers who said, "Careful, careful, careful......it's
> > taking all I can do to keep my soapbox under the table and rant
podium
> > in the closet."
> >
> > Gabriel
> > Nor CA Sierras
> > '84 Westy
> >
> >
> > At 11:43 AM 4/28/2005 -0600, jimt wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting thing on the news last night. Seems most of the US
> >> refineries
> >> are right at max output and some are actually pushing past safety
> >> limits to
> >> meet demand. No new refineries have been built since the 70s. The
> >> restrictions on where and how to build them has made it way to
> >> expensive to
> >> build a new one and takes to many years to do the paperwork. To
build
> >> a new
> >> refinery they would need a crystal ball that sees ten years into
the
> >> future
> >> and hundreds of millions to fight the green people and meet the
>current
> >> placement laws. Part of the Bush fuels rules proposed would open
old
>Air
> >> Bases for development by refiners. This actually makes sense
because
> >> a lot
> >> of these bases were also on the pipe lines.
> >> Jimt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 4/28/05 10:21, "Jim Felder" <felder@KNOLOGY.NET> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Don't forget that China is getting big into agribusiness and is
an
> >> > exporter of farm goods now. Of course all that runs on diesel, as
>it
> >> > does in India, to name two growing, diesel-based economies. And
>with
> >> > snow just off the ground in parts of the US, a cold spring also
>pits
> >> > heating oil against diesel supplies.
> >> >
> >> > Jim
> >> >
> >> > On Apr 28, 2005, at 9:48 AM, Brent Berisford wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> The bottom line.
> >> >> Diesel in the past has always been the better value. Trucking
>firms
> >> >> and train better bang for the buck. The largest problem with
>diesel
> >> >> and cost at the moment is that the war machine runs on diesel
not
> >> >> gasoline.We have created a demand by supporting the war in the
>middle
> >> >> east. Just my 2 cents. The demand for diesel high mileage cars
>also
> >> >> proves that diesel is the smarter choice at least in my local
> >> commuter
> >> >> market.
> >> >> Brent
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> ........................................
> >> jimt
> >> Planned insanity is best.
> >> Remember that sanity is optional.
> >> http://www.tactical-bus.info (tech info)
> >> http://www.westydriver.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Kevin Barry
mailto:krbarry@gmail.com
"Those who would give up essential liberty in order to
purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
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