Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:59:12 -0700
Reply-To: Jon Brown <jbrown510@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jon Brown <jbrown510@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on Biodiesel
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
A while ago B2 actually sold lower than regular diesel
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/040923/073073.html
I suspect that is no longer the case because the cost of soy beans has gone
up significantly since then. I suspect due to soy bean rust hitting the
southern states, although I haven't really followed it in a couple years.
From what I've seen most "major" bio-diesel manufacturers, at least in the
US, are primarily using soy bean oil at this point. Presumably, as someone
above said, because it's somewhat stable availability. One company, which I
follow, has just begun using WVO and claims it will significantly reduce the
cost of production.
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050510/105659.html?.v=1
Europe is really on the forefront, Germany on the cutting edge. They are
primarily using rapeseed oil.
http://www.cornandsoybeandigest.com/mag/soybean_us_versus_world/
Everywhere it's somewhat raw stock limited. ie. no easy access to massive
quantities of organic oils or waste cooking oil... need some more economy
of scale which will take time.
I've got a brilliant idea... how about we make all those farmers getting
paid subsides to NOT grow anything instead grow soy beans and rape seed...
Apparently someone in Europe is already thinking the same thing...
http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6052
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Wilder" <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [VANAGON] Question on Biodiesel
> Isn't this whole Bio-Diesel thing just catch 22?
> I eat more fries, onion rings and fried foods to make more used cooking
oil
> and then I gain all that weight and it takes more fuel to move me down the
> road.
> Don't get me wrong I love the smell of French Fries in the morning at
every
> red light but it causes me to salivate the whole day long.
> The worst offenders are the Bio Cars that smell like Donuts and you can't
> find a Policeman when you really need one.
> I saw the PBS show about the two guys that went from coast to coast in the
> converted VW on used cooking oil ...............
> How much weight did they gain?
>
> Stan Wilder
> Engine Ceramics
> 214-352-4931
> www.engineceramics.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jimt" <camper@TACTICAL-BUS.INFO>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 1:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Question on Biodiesel
>
>
> > On 5/17/05 11:22 AM, "Loren Busch" <starwagen@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >
> > > Okay, here is the $64,000,000,000 question:
> > > What is the TOTAL cost in BTU vs. BTU output realized? And what is the
> > > TOTAL acreage dedicated to producing the vegetable matter required?
> > > (Assuming total replacement of fossil diesel)
> > > The last figures I saw (some years ago) on bio fuels still put them in
> > > the same category as running a generator with an electric motor that
> > > was powered by the generator: Net loss in the system.
> > > (And then you get into the mess they have in the UK of the government
> > > collecting a fuel tax on the left over fish and chips oil)
> > >
> > A recent PBS program was an update on a previous program they had aired
> > about 5 yrs ago. It had some interesting info in it and showed where
some
> > really massive changes in technology have been advancing and where many
> > others are still stuck at the starting gate.
> >
> > With current costs of oil bio is becoming more cost effective.
> > To be real cost effective oil was going to have to stay in the mid 50
buck
> a
> > barrel range.
> >
> > Acreage available would never feed more than 25-30% of needs.
> >
> > As demand for the fuels rises so would the costs of the bio portion of
the
> > fuel. Therefore though we would increase supply we would still never
meet
> > demand. This was the critical part of the program.
> >
> > The future for vehicles in the world may be multi-fuel stations.
Vehicle
> > fueling stations that provided LPG, Ethanol-Gasoline, Biodiesel, CNG,
and
> > high current charging stations (for batteries still in experimental
> stages).
> >
> > Vehicles would become more diversified with hybrid, bi-fuel,or dual fuel
> > capable.
> > With the bi-fuel you would have two types of fuel in separate tanks.
The
> > computer would blend as needed by the engine. Dual fuel would be
capable
> of
> > running on either of two types of fuel like a propane/gasoline setup
could
> > actually be a bi or dual fuel. Hybrids are still the elect/other fuel
in
> > combination.
> >
> > In the elect/hybrid area a couple French companies are working on
charging
> > stations with agreements that have set up charging spots in parking lots
> and
> > at some major companies. I kind of like that idea. Park and Charge
> > franchise coming soon to a parking lot near you.
> >
> > jimt
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 5/13/2005
> >
> >
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