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Date:         Wed, 18 May 2005 10:14:43 -0700
Reply-To:     Alan Sinclair <alan@DETERMINISTICNETWORKS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Alan Sinclair <alan@DETERMINISTICNETWORKS.COM>
Organization: Deterministic Networks Inc
Subject:      Re: oil and gas
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> Right on!! But remember, when you make ethanol from corn oil, or diesel > from soy, that it uses a rough equivalency of fossil fuel to plant, grow

In my college classes last year we did the calculations on this, and you're propagating a myth. There is (obviously) an energy input to produce the crop, but the energy balance is positive, and not just by a small percentage but by a decent multiple. I'll dig out the figures and references later, but please hold off repeating the oil companies' anti-environmental propaganda until then :-)

Biofuels ARE an effective solution and make up one of the "wedges" needed in kicking the fossil fuel habit (there are about ten others -- solar, wind, etc.)

Iirc ADM are actually doing some good stuff (for all they are not nice) in the biofuel line, getting multiple uses from the biomass: alcohol plus using the CO2, plus other things (in my notes, not my forgettory)

(Sorry this discussion is OT for Vanagon, but it's useful)

Alan

----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Williams" <williams@FIRE.BIOL.WWU.EDU> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:28 AM Subject: oil and gas

> Right on!! But remember, when you make ethanol from corn oil, or diesel > from soy, that it uses a rough equivalency of fossil fuel to plant, grow > and harvest the stuff. So there is no savings---just conversion of a > fossel fuel product into an agricultural product into a automobile fuel > product. That is why ADM (Archer Daniels Midland) is such an outrageous > company. They want to convert corn into ethanol without telling us that to > grow and harvest the corn, they have to use an equivalency of fossil > fuel!!! On the other hand, I guess we deserve the ripoffs that we allow to > happen. Incidentally, I think I'll purchase another vehicle (Vanagon) that > gets 16 MPG, while I'm thinking about it. > > Don > 85 Westy (16 MPG) >


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