Date:         Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:08:57 -0700
Reply-To:     Keith Ovregaard <kovregaard@COMCAST.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Keith Ovregaard <kovregaard@COMCAST.NET>
Subject:      Re: AC converted to 134
In-Reply-To:  <42DD7F78.2060202@qwest.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Keith H and all who have responded...

I know this is a bit long-winded, but it sure would be great to find 
the best solution to making the AC work properly.

I live near San Francisco in Larkspur and even though we do have a few 

100+ days. the norm is more like mid 80's and the 84 Westy does not get 

exposed to much extreme heat. Also the AC has been out for a few years 

(although it cooled OK, just barely, in the past using the old R12 on a 

90° day). I get the feeling that the 134 conversion I did was not a 
great idea and has been a very expensive lesson in AC technology. I 
have also found some info on several 134/R12 alternatives (Duracool, 
Maxifridge) from listers and local mechanics. Maxifridge states on its 

website the following:
"Enviro-Safe Refrigerants are hydrocarbon refrigerants that are 
ultra-efficient .
6 oz. of Enviro-Safe is equivalent to 18 oz. of R-12 or 16 oz. of 
R-134a.
12 can/cases of ES-12a can be ordered for only $59.00"
That's cheap! The R12 here has been going for $75-80/lb and 134 is not 

so cheap either. Has anyone tried the alternative stuff?
I wonder if the compressor does not have to work so hard using 
something besides 134, maybe it won't shut down when it gets so hot.
Regarding the lifter noise, it is not associated with high temps and 
only happens after the van sits a while without starting the engine. 
Always has since I bought it in 1993.
So, what to do next? Bag it and live with the fact that the AC will not 

keep me cool in the hottest weather or go to the trouble to make this 
thing work the way it should? I know that last option is a lot to ask 
of the old beast. And I don't want to spend too much more on this 
project.
Anybody out there who owns an 83-85 Vanagon with a winning solution to 

AC success?

Keith O





On Jul 19, 2005, at 3:32 PM, Keith Hughes wrote:
> Keith,
>
> The only thing you're missing is adequate cooling :-)
>
> The '84, as others have said, has no high pressure switch. The second
> setpoint on the thermoswitch turns the fan on high, and energizes the
> compressor  cutout relay.  The system,  pre '86 is not legal to 
> retrofit
> to 134A without addition of a high pressure switch.  The post '86
> systems, although they have a high pressure switch, are not *legal* to
> convert either, in that the high pressure switch must be configured to
> disable the compressor, which the Vanagons' aren't.
>
> I don't think you have an A/C problem at all. You have an overheating
> problem.  The lifter clatter, in conjunction with tripping the high 
> temp
> switch (radiator) is indicative of overheating. Oil gets too thin, and
> worn lifters can't stay pumped up.  In my '86, here in Phoenix, I could
> not keep it running cool enough with the old WBX'er, even with a new
> cooling system (and +200K on the motor).  When it got into triple
> digits,  which can be >100 days a year, the A/C was unusable. The fan
> was on high often/long enough that the A/C just didn't cool.
>
> As for the clatter, I don't know where you live, but here, I ran
> straight 50W (60W if it was going to be >115°F for some time) in the
> summer, and 40w in the winter, which helped the oil pressure problem.
> Use to do the same with Buses, which were even worse - 80K on a bus
> motor here in Phoenix is about all you can hope for.  Even so, after a
> couple 100K's on the motor, it was time for a new one. Good luck,
>
> Keith
>
>> Date:    Tue, 19 Jul 2005 12:55:17 -0700
>> From:    Keith Ovregaard <kovregaard@COMCAST.NET>
>> Subject: Re: AC converted to 134
>>
>> Keith
>> Looks like the Keith's are in agreement here. Although I am not 
>> certain=20=
>>
>> of a high pressure AC switch on my 84. No doubt the relays are set 
>> to=20
>> give priority to the high speed fan at the expense of the AC=20
>> compressor. Meant to be that way, it seems. I don't think anything=20

>> abnormal is happening with the radiator: no discolored fluid, no 
>> leaks,=20=
>>
>> apparently good circulation, resent/frequent coolant change (VW=20
>> approved) and normal operation for 10 years. Just looks to me like 
>> the=20=
>>
>> old 84 has trouble running the AC at temps in the triple digits. Or 

>> am=20=
>>
>> I still missing something?
>>
>> Keith O