Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:12:36 -0500
Reply-To: Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: Re: Follow-up on bad exhaust experience
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I've had 11 years of Vanagon experience and a few more on Porsche.
I've rebuilt about ten VW / Porsche engines and countless Chevy, Hemi
Chrysler engines.
My main experience comes from owning and running a chain of four muffler /
brake / speed equipment / front alignment shops from 1992-1975.
It's just very common thinking for mechanics to expect the "Worst" when
dealing with removing or installing exhaust parts.
I think that might be the key to the success of specialty muffler shops.
Exhaust on most cars are nasty, bound up, welded together, corroded, stinky,
rusted together parts of variable thickness and integrity.
Anytime you're working with exhaust just expect the "worst" and you won't be
disappointed.
I currently Ceramic Coat Exhaust manifolds, headers, turbos and I can tell
you people don't even file off the rough spots before they bring them to my
shop.
Some have deep encrustations of local dried mud and others have seven coats
of Granny Funk's barbeque paint on them.
Even the new headers with fresh paint have "suck" globbed on paint; it's
just a shame that manufacturers have no pride in their finished product.
Stan Wilder
Engine Ceramics
214-352-4931
www.engineceramics.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wesley Pegden" <wes@CS.UCHICAGO.EDU>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: Follow-up on bad exhaust experience
> Just to confirm that there is a WIDE range of vanagon expertise out
there...
> when I was looking for people to pull studs for me, I had trouble
> finding anybody even willing to attempt the job. I ended up finding a
> Mercedes guy that was willing to pull them out, but he left two in
> because he wasn't willing to pull so hard as to risk breakage. I
> eventually twisted the end of one of them off trying to tighten a nut on
> (there was no thread left), so I really needed it pulled. At that point
> I was in NJ, instead of Pittsburgh. Clarence's VW, which wasn't to far
> from me, took care of it for me. He quoted me a price of $60 per stud,
> in the WORST CASE, i.e., where he had to drill the stud out. Lucky for
> me, he didn't have to. Still, this seemed like a pretty impressive rate
> to me. He quoted me the price over the phone like he had drilled out
> 100's of studs in his days... (he's been in the same location for 30
> years, I think).
> -Wes
>
>
> Stan Wilder wrote:
>
> >For those of you raging on the poor mechanic that broke an exhaust stud
you
> >should consider this.
> >#1) The broken stud was an unexpected event and the mechanic should have
> >stopped what he was doing and notified you of additional cost to remove
the
> >broken stud. If he couldn't do the job himself he should have sent you to
> >someone who could do the job properly.
> >#2) Removing a broken stud can take from two minutes to two days
depending
> >on the situation.
> >#3) Often mechanics don't have every tool known to man or they have tools
> >that are worn and don't work perfectly the first time.
> >#4) In the case of broken studs they're always a nuisance and anytime I
> >break one I think God is punishing me for something I did and my first
> >exclamation at breaking a stud has never helped either.
> >#5) You can be sure that broken stud ruined the day for that mechanic.
> >#6) If you get your Vanagon back on the road without any exhaust leaks
you
> >should be grateful and just remember to get that repair welding dome when
> >you rebuild your heads.
> >#7) In general every car more than a few years old has a potential for
> >broken exhaust studs after the mounting fasteners rust, corrode or bond
> >themselves from high heat exposure.
> >I think I've recently broken studs on the last Ford truck i installed an
oil
> >pump on , my Oldsmobile but fortunately not any recent VWs or my Porsche.
> >
> >Stan Wilder
> >Engine Ceramics
> >214-352-4931
> >www.engineceramics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Dennis Haynes" <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
> >To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 10:23 PM
> >Subject: Re: Follow-up on bad exhaust experience
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>If the mechanic was not versed at drilling out studs in place, you
> >>should have been informed. This is really a machinist, not normal
> >>mechanic skill. It sometimes happens that a proper repair requires head
> >>removal. If you weren't willing to take that step, then a butcher repair
> >>may be appropriate to by some time. In general, only the VW's have this
> >>difficulty with exhaust removal. The combination of poor hardware
> >>quality with very high temperatures most likely due to the lack of a
> >>real cast iron manifold makes for difficult parts removal.
> >>
> >>Dennis
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
> >>Of Ed
> >>Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 3:26 PM
> >>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >>Subject: Follow-up on bad exhaust experience
> >>
> >>I got a few different opinions on my recent bad exhaust experience, but
> >>I'd still like opinions on this specifically:
> >>
> >>I know that removing it can be difficult. But is it a sign of a bad
> >>mechanic if he "slips" with the drill bit and knocks off a piece of the
> >>exhaust head of the engine, puts black silicone around it, and re-drills
> >>the head at an angle in a different spot, and holds it on with a bunch
> >>of washers? Should I be paying for the fact that he couldn't drill it
> >>out well?
> >>
> >>Ed
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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