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Date:         Sat, 20 Aug 2005 06:53:33 EDT
Reply-To:     RAlanen@AOL.COM
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Frank Condelli <RAlanen@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Negligent mechanic?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 19/08/2005 9:01:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM writes:

On the advice of several on the list, I decided to let a local mechanic = tackle my '85 Westfalia's exhaust instead of doing it myself. I went in = with both header pipes, and the connector to the cat, as well as all the = hardware and gaskets. All were purchased from Volkscafe. Pipes were good = used ones.=20

I got an estimate of about $150 to do the job. I dropped the van off, = and came back four hours later, to be told that one of the head studs = broke off, and it would be a while longer. This was no surprise, as I = have heard plenty of stories of troubles with getting off the bolts and = studs.=20

What was a surprise, however, was how the mechanic dealt with the = problem. I hung around for the last three hours of the work. At one = point I saw him pouring in coolant. This naturally got me worried. He = said he had to take off the lower thermostat housing in order to get at = the studs to drill them out. But he still wasn't successful. He said = that the drill bit slipped, and he ended up hacking off a piece of the = exhaust head. And there's a new stud, put in on an angle, with about = four washers and a nut on it. Next I saw him banging on something with a = pry bar. He said that the flange on the exhaust pipe wasn't straight and = he had to bang it in place to get a good seal against the head. He also = had trouble getting the thermostat housing back on. It leaked several = times.

I didn't discover how badly he whacked the exhaust head until I got = home. I guess after leaving he van for four hours and sitting there for = another three, I was ready to get out of there. He also added an eshaust = hanger that is bolted to the frame, connected to the pipe before the = cat. I had asked him to replace a broken support that was there, which = he didn't do. He also didn't put the heat shields back on correctly.=20

So I know that these things can be troublesome. But do you really have = to remove the thermostat housing to get at the studs? And is it his = incompetence that he wasn't able to remove the stud without messing up = the head?=20

I also told him that two of the heads have studs and two have bolts, as = Volkscafe told me. He said that there was a different mixture of bolts = and studs, and replaced them as he found them. It also looks like he = left at least one old stud in there.

So was this guy negligent? Advice? Oh, yeah, total was seven hours for a = total of $439.00. This is a local place that does a lot of exhausts. = There is just no good Vanagon mechanic locally, so an exhaust shop = seemed to be the next best choice.

This is a prime example of why I do not and will not and cannot give an estimate of an exhaust system renewal on a Vanagon. All it takes is one exhaust port broken bolt or stud to cause a major problem. On the 1.9 engines the exhaust port on the LH side rear is completely inaccessible with the thermostat housing in place. Just removing that piece could turn into a major problem. The bolts are long and usually corroded and will break off no matter what you do. Any of the rear header bolts or studs breaking off on any waterboxer engine usually requires removing other bits and/or dropping the engine to drill, tap and install Helicoils. Now your into a coolant flush and refill also ! This is a job for those with sufficient competence and expertise on Vanagons. There is no other exhaust system anywhere similar so even competent exhaust mechanic may have problems. Always best to find someone who knows what he's up against and is WILLING to do the job correctly. Otherwise your gona get bit, hard ! This message is good a reply to the innocent question of Jeff also !

Also a VERY good reason to install a complete Stainless Steel exhaust system with all stainless steel hardware. See my _STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel Exhaust System_ (http://members.aol.com/Fkc43/stebro.htm) webpage. So......you will never have to revisit this job again and if you need to remove the system later it will be EASY.

Cheers,

Frank Condelli Almonte, Ontario, Canada '87 Westy, '90 Carat & Lionel Trains Vanagon/Vanagon Westfalia Service in the Ottawa Valley _Frank Condelli & Associates_ (http://members.aol.com/Fkc43/busindex.html) or http://frankcondelli.com _STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel Mufflers_ (http://members.aol.com/Fkc43/stebro.htm) _BusFusion_ (http://members.aol.com/BusFusion/bfhome.htm) a VW Camper camping event, Almonte, ON, June 09 ~ 12, 2005


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