Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 22:20:06 -0500
Reply-To: Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stan Wilder <wilden1-1@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: Re: interesting lifter thinking?? 1.9L still a problem child
(update)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Marvel Mystery Oil is always worth a try.
About 16 oz to 1 quart in the oil pan after you've drained off enough oil
that you're not overfilled with the MMO added.
The mmo should free up your rings, free up lifters and sticky valves, clean
the interior of your crank case.
I'd run the MMO for about 300 miles with about 100 of that in the 3000 rpm
range at highway / freeway speeds.
Change the filter and install a Mann or Mahle filter that has the checkvalve
feature then refill the crankcase with straight 40 wt or 20/50 wt.
My last Vanagon held just as good pressures with the 40 wt as with the 20/50
wt oils.
With the MMO thinning your oil somewhat try to keep the engine around 1200
rpms so your oil light doesn't flicker as your stopped at red-light.
I doubt the MMO is a fix but it's cheap enough that you should give it a
try.
I preferred to set my valves by dropping a thin flat bar .035/.060 down into
each spark plug hole and bringing the piston up on compression stroke
binding against the flat stock. Any type wire like a coat hanger will work
near as good as the flat stock.
Stan Wilder
Engine Ceramics
214-352-4931
www.engineceramics.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonce Fancher" <streetbugs@WHISPLLC.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:40 PM
Subject: interesting lifter thinking?? 1.9L still a problem child (update)
> Ok found something interesting and liked what i found but not satisfied
yet.
> **so i pulled the valve covers and adjusted to 0.00 lash on the 1/3 valves
for intake and exhaust.
> **rechecked the compression and found it to jump from day before
yesterdays 20-25psi to 150 psi and 155 psi in 1/3. so all cylinders are 5psi
difference. not
> a biggie.
> **so i put the bugger back together and fired it up and viola!! all
cylinders are hitting. i adjusted the air bypass(idle) down just a little to
get under 1k rpm.
> it ran and was burning off the oil i got on the exhaust manifold and was
smoking up the garage (good fun).
> **BUT after it seemed to warm up a bit it started to stumble and tick like
a lifter or something then knocked off on 1 cylinder probably 1 or 3. do not
know. i
> can only work on this thing after i put my girls to sleep at night for
about 1-2 hours at about 9:00 pm till i have to go to sleep.
> ** so here is the Question of the Day
> ?? if the lifter is sticking or valve is sticking can Marvel oil give it a
fix?? how much would one put in to a 1.9L?? pint qt gallon?? why did the
lifter over
> charge after a few minutes of running? is it due to it sitting for a few
days and came down a bit and i adjusted to a mid point?? should i run it
around the
> block and down the freeway a bit and get it nice and warm put it on the
lift and when it is cool enough adjust to 0 lash??
> i do feel good that im getting closer to finding out what it needs. just
need to figure out how to make it right is all now. thanks for all your help
all of you !!! still
> looking for more suggestions though. Jonce
>
>
> >It is possible to have the lifters over charged as you call it and that
is
> >why you would back off of the preloading of the lifter
> >I also suggest that they not be preloaded until the problem is sorted out
> >preloading is turning the adjusting screw past when the adjusting screw
> >touchs the valve stem the correct responce of the lifter would be to hold
> >the push rod firm and the screw would open the valve as its turned. The
air
> >bound lifter would have some give and move the push rod on lifters that
do
> >this I would go back to .006ths and put some more miles on it
>
> >I dont understand how you got from 175 pounds to 25 pound of compression
> >Did you remove the rockers and have you pulled the valve covers to see if
> >there is a problem in the valve train the lifters can hnag up on the
edges
> >of the lifters
> >the rings need oil to seal and you say the engine smell of gas its
possible
> >that you have gas washed the cylinders
> >I would start with another compression test this time adding some oil for
> >the second test and then see whats up
> >lots of other possiblitys why the compression has gone down rusty
cylinders
> >carbon on the valves and so on
> >call me this afternoon if you like and we can go over the problem
>
>
> >Bob Donalds
> >Boston Engine exchange
> >1 508 358 6264
>
>
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Jonce Fancher" <streetbugs@WHISPLLC.COM>
> >To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:46 AM
> >Subject: lifter thinking?? 1.9L still a problem child (update)
>
>
> >> Hi again
> >> can a lifter or lifters over charge or open valves to much to not allow
> >> the valves to fully close if there is no combustion in the chamber??
> >> whould the valves
> >> need to be adjusted once fully charged up after running to make sure
the
> >> valves fully close. could this be? due to wear or missadjustments or ??
if
> >> i adjust
> >> my valves to 0 lash on each cylinder after valves are charged (has been
> >> run). do the pushrods expand like the old aluminum air cooled vw ones??
> >> thanks
> >> Jonce
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Bob and others here is the time line on some of the things that i
have
> >> done with in the last 2 months to this PIG aka PITA.
> >> *purchased long block from previous owner 1.5 years ago. he had it
sitting
> >> on a pallet for 6 months prior.
> >> *did a compression test on the floor with old trans hooked up and
cranked
> >> it over and tested all 4 cyl. to find 165 to 170 compression
> >> * 2 weeks before 1st camp trip i pulled the old motor and installed the
> >> good used as from what i could tell and replaced most seals, water
pump,
> >> most hoses,
> >> plugs, wires, cap, rotor, etc.etc.
> >> * installed motor with all the ac and power steering and all new
exhaust
> >> seals and such
> >> * fired it up and bled the system after adjusting the timing as per the
> >> bentley. ran sorta crappy and chattered since i believe the lifters
were
> >> charging. drove
> >> quick around town and the lifters got quiet. took it home and checked
and
> >> fixed a small air leak and exhaust leak.
> >> * went on the camp trip of 40 miles each way came back and still ran
sorta
> >> bad. pulled the injectors and had rebuilt refurbished and reinstalled
with
> >> new
> >> hoses and all. checked all electrical and vacuum
> >> *went on second camp trip and still ran like crap yet another 40 mile
trip
> >> each way got home and started in on it again. swapped with good used
AFM,
> >> ECU,
> >> hall sender, idle stabilizer, distributor, and cleaned and checked all
> >> plugs and sensor connections and grounds.
> >> *had someone help yesterday to check spark since i know i had plenty of
> >> fuel you can smell it a mile away. the spark was fair on 1/3 and good
on
> >> 2/4
> >> *late last night i went ahead and tested compression and found 25 psi
or
> >> so in 1/3 and 2/4 in the 150s
> >>
> >> so the question is what do i do now? you say to drive it which i can.
im
> >> not aposed to driving it it runs rich and on 2 cylinders but runs
enough
> >> to get down
> >> the street at a snails pace. im not sure what you mean by preload the
> >> valves. i glanced at the bentley and im not sure if i fully understand
the
> >> proceedure. do
> >> i just adjust them just like a type 1 but butt the adjusting screw up
to
> >> the valve and in turn in 2 turns. is this with the engine cold or
> >> hot/warm? the valves do
> >> not chatter now and havent since they shut up on its maiden voyage. i
can
> >> swap plugs on 1/3 everytime i drive it if need be. i did change the oil
> >> just last
> >> week when i got back from camp trip #2. also camp trip #3 is in 2 weeks
so
> >> if i can just drive it i will. it doesnt over heat or make any bad
noise
> >> just runs like
> >> crap since the compression is low in 2 cylinders. i can rev it and it
> >> seems to pull once over 4k rpm. is there somewhere that has how to set
> >> valves for
> >> someone that is well versed in the aircooled crowd but sorta out of it
on
> >> the waterbox?? sorry for this being so long im just at a loss and my
> >> family loves to
> >> camp in this thing and i really dont want to let them down. c-ya Jonce
> >> Hell i can over rev with the best of them if that is what it takes
> >>
> >>>This sounds like the cylinders got filled with oil and the compression
> >>>numbers and the fouling are goimg to resolve themselves when you drive
it
> >>>You cant tell much from a cold engine other than its worth a shot at
> >>>starting and sorting out. you may need to replace the plugs more than
once
> >>>and change the oil often while you sort it out to prevent the gas build
up
> >>>in the oil
> >>>wait until the engine settles down after it been hot a couple of times
> >>>then
> >>>preload the valves
> >>
> >>
> >>>goiing faster miles an hour with the radio on
> >>>I remain
> >>>Bob Donalds
> >>>Boston Engine Exchange
> >>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Jonce Fancher" <streetbugs@WHISPLLC.COM>
> >>>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >>>Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 6:48 AM
> >>>Subject: Re: 1.9L still a problem child (update)
> >>
> >>
> >>>> im lost on this one as well. i will try adjusting the valves loose
like
> >>>> i
> >>>> do for a type 1 motor and do another compression test. also im
wondering
> >>>> if the cylinders
> >>>> had a bunch of residual oil in them when i did the compression test
> >>>> before
> >>>> install that it sealed evereything. the guy i got this from had R/R
the
> >>>> rings and
> >>>> head gaskets a few years prior to pulling for a inline conversion.
motor
> >>>> was fine on pulling but didnt have a compression check before pulled.
im
> >>>> going to try
> >>>> and do a valve adjust tonight. thanks Jonce
> >>>>
> >>>>>You did a compression test after it sat on a crate for 2 years, and
it
> >>>>>had up to 170 lbs. compression.
> >>>>
> >>>>>You install it.
> >>>>
> >>>>>The compression drops to 15 lbs.
> >>>>
> >>>>>How can this be?
> >>>>
> >>>>>Either a valve is hanging open, or the rings magically got stuck
> >>>>>somehow.
> >>>>
> >>>>>Back off the valve's and re adjust them first.
> >>>>
> >>>>>Then see if you have any better compression.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Jonce Fancher
> >>>>
> >>>> 57 Single Cab
> >>>> 66 Sunroof Bug
> >>>> 66 Variant Squareback
> >>>> 71 Sunroof Bus
> >>>> 75 911S Sunroof
> >>>> 84 Vanagon "Godfried"
> >>>> 85 Vanagon Westi
> >>>> 2003 10 Passenger Sprinter
> >>>>
> >>>> Fancher's Upholstery Inc. - www.fanchers.com
> >>>> Not-A-VW Club- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jaransont3/notavwclub/
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jonce Fancher
> >>
> >> 57 Single Cab
> >> 66 Sunroof Bug
> >> 66 Variant Squareback
> >> 71 Sunroof Bus
> >> 75 911S Sunroof
> >> 84 Vanagon "Godfried"
> >> 85 Vanagon Westi
> >> 2003 10 Passenger Sprinter
> >>
> >> Fancher's Upholstery Inc. - www.fanchers.com
> >> Not-A-VW Club- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jaransont3/notavwclub/
> >>
> >>
> >> ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================
> >>
> >>
> >> Jonce Fancher
> >>
> >> 57 Single Cab
> >> 66 Sunroof Bug
> >> 66 Variant Squareback
> >> 71 Sunroof Bus
> >> 75 911S Sunroof
> >> 84 Vanagon "Godfried"
> >> 85 Vanagon Westi
> >> 2003 10 Passenger Sprinter
> >>
> >> Fancher's Upholstery Inc. - www.fanchers.com
> >> Not-A-VW Club- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jaransont3/notavwclub/
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jonce Fancher
>
> 57 Single Cab
> 66 Sunroof Bug
> 66 Variant Squareback
> 71 Sunroof Bus
> 75 911S Sunroof
> 84 Vanagon "Godfried"
> 85 Vanagon Westi
> 2003 10 Passenger Sprinter
>
> Fancher's Upholstery Inc. - www.fanchers.com
> Not-A-VW Club- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jaransont3/notavwclub/
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