Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:09:39 -0500
Reply-To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: alternative carburetion of FI 2.0 Liter vanagon engine???
In-Reply-To: <43208796.5030901@charmfx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Wil, I think my friend that used the Pasche Airbrush to build a
carburetor to increase gas mileage used that principle of increasing
atomization of the fuel. I'm sure his Omni was running on the lean side
of life. How long the engine would have lasted is a mystery, since the
thing died in a wreck. But it woul dhave been interesting to know.
Regards,
John Rodgers
88 GL Driver
Wil Haslup wrote:
> phil cain wrote:
>
>> All the devices that work have been bought up by the
>> oil companies so we won't get the mileage.
>
>
> Mostly I'm thinking those with machinist skills may attempt to build
> versions of devices from patent drawings to establish if the thing works
> or not...a small one for a lawn mower, say.
>
> ...then once you understand what's going on there is nothing to say you
> can't develop your own iteration of the concept resulting in a new
> patentable version.
>
> ...most seem to depend on vacuum, metering and/or use of heat to
> encourage a more thorough dispersion of fuel as vapor or near
> vapor...more surface area on the molecules results in cleaner burning
> with less fuel.
>
> I say that but don't necessarily believe the legends of 100-200 mpg
> carburetors. It does seem that even a 10%-20% improvement might be
> worth looking at the ideas though.
>
> There are engine designs which are acknowledged to be more efficient and
> are being used in some vehicle applications. I found a reference to a
> Stirling engine design being used in Swedish subs.
>
> http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/aipstirling.html
>
> I believe I heard somewhere Dean Kamen, developer of the Segway personal
> transporter, delayed announcing the Segway in hopes of perfecting a
> Stirling to power it. In its place they released it with the
> rechargeable battery powered electric version.
>
>> The ones
>> that are left are sold by the snake oil companies(in
>> other words they don't work)
>
>
> I've bought a few of those over the years offering small percentage
> gains in efficiency and gotten no consistent gains myself. I didn't
> loose much on them though. Lesson learned.
>
>> Without the proper
>> mixture you will either foul the plugs or burn the
>> valves from to rich or too lean.
>
>
> sure.
>
>> Fuel injection is the
>> best followed by a properly jetted carb.
>
>
> neither really exploiting the promise offered by either the vapor
> induction or extremely precise fuel metering systems mentioned in the
> legends of such devices....but they do work and other than injectors and
> jets getting clogged aren't problematic.
>
> An idea I've toyed with is finding a mechanism to limit the time the
> injector is open and increase dispersion out of the injector effectively
> reducing the amount of fuel but increasing the surface area of the
> amount injected. In computer controlled injection a method for
> adjusting the mixture from the specification would be needed since these
> settings and those controlling air are in the EPROM.
>
> I've seen custom computer control setups to replace factory vehicle
> computers...they provide the ability to make such adjustments.
>
>> Another thing
>> we have to deal with is the ethanol, it makes our
>> older cars run hotter, the new cars love it. This is
>> just my two cents worth on the Fuel injection / carb
>> problem.
>
>
> What I have noted is that when you mention these legendary devices often
> folks point to the debunking web sites and say they are all shams.
>
> I personally remember seeing 2 guys testifying before Congress on C-Span
> in the late 70's when they had gas/efficiency hearings about a tweaked
> diesel they put into a Pinto body that they got 98 mpg out of. Their
> testimony was interrupted by a phone call from a representative of a
> major manufacturer and I never saw the story on any other media.
>
> ...with CAFE standards, etc. you have to wonder what the motivation is
> for squelching such things.
>
>
> --
>
> Wil
>
>
> -- http://www.charmfx.com/
>
> "Every generalization is dangerous, especially this one."
> -- Mark Twain
>
>
|