Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:31:26 -0400
Reply-To: Jonce Fancher <streetbugs@WHISPLLC.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jonce Fancher <streetbugs@WHISPLLC.COM>
Subject: Re: interesting lifter thinking?? 1.9L still a problem child
(update)
In-Reply-To: <001801c5a2da$9113a080$6401a8c0@noner4688xfd1h>
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Well i think the lifter issue is behind me. i adjusted the valves to 0.00 clearance with MMO in the case and ran it for some time. dumped it out and dropped
in 20-50w oil and after the lifters charged up it sounded good again. now im going to reset or preload the #1/3 cylinders just 1.5 turns in to see if the lifters
will still over charge.
this past weekend we (the Family) went on a weekend camp trip leaving friday night and coming back sunday late morning. vanagon ran fine little bit of
tapping on the valves probably due to clearances and what not. sorta has a stumble or lack of power just a little bit not to gutsy but it was fully loaded with a
family of 4 and all camping gear and coolers full and firewood brought back including my ez up and 4 bikes.
so this week ive got some plans to adjust valves and there was something about tuning up or rebuilding the AFM. i know my injectors are perfect and fully
serviced and timing is dead on all plugs are new but with the issues i was having im going to swap them out 1 more time for fun. if anyone has any tips on
getting just a bit more power out if it let me know i think there is some in there i just need to tap it. maybe a set of dual 44 or 48 IDAs (just kidding) also the
exhaust is noisy and there are no leaks. it does have a Test pipe in instead of a cat. would that make it noisy?? thanks Jonce
>Marvel Mystery Oil is always worth a try.
>About 16 oz to 1 quart in the oil pan after you've drained off enough oil
>that you're not overfilled with the MMO added.
>The mmo should free up your rings, free up lifters and sticky valves, clean
>the interior of your crank case.
>I'd run the MMO for about 300 miles with about 100 of that in the 3000 rpm
>range at highway / freeway speeds.
>Change the filter and install a Mann or Mahle filter that has the checkvalve
>feature then refill the crankcase with straight 40 wt or 20/50 wt.
>My last Vanagon held just as good pressures with the 40 wt as with the 20/50
>wt oils.
>With the MMO thinning your oil somewhat try to keep the engine around 1200
>rpms so your oil light doesn't flicker as your stopped at red-light.
>I doubt the MMO is a fix but it's cheap enough that you should give it a
>try.
>I preferred to set my valves by dropping a thin flat bar .035/.060 down into
>each spark plug hole and bringing the piston up on compression stroke
>binding against the flat stock. Any type wire like a coat hanger will work
>near as good as the flat stock.
>Stan Wilder
>Engine Ceramics
>214-352-4931
>www.engineceramics.com
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jonce Fancher" <streetbugs@WHISPLLC.COM>
>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 9:40 PM
>Subject: interesting lifter thinking?? 1.9L still a problem child (update)
>> Ok found something interesting and liked what i found but not satisfied
>yet.
>> **so i pulled the valve covers and adjusted to 0.00 lash on the 1/3 valves
>for intake and exhaust.
>> **rechecked the compression and found it to jump from day before
>yesterdays 20-25psi to 150 psi and 155 psi in 1/3. so all cylinders are 5psi
>difference. not
>> a biggie.
>> **so i put the bugger back together and fired it up and viola!! all
>cylinders are hitting. i adjusted the air bypass(idle) down just a little to
>get under 1k rpm.
>> it ran and was burning off the oil i got on the exhaust manifold and was
>smoking up the garage (good fun).
>> **BUT after it seemed to warm up a bit it started to stumble and tick like
>a lifter or something then knocked off on 1 cylinder probably 1 or 3. do not
>know. i
>> can only work on this thing after i put my girls to sleep at night for
>about 1-2 hours at about 9:00 pm till i have to go to sleep.
>> ** so here is the Question of the Day
>> ?? if the lifter is sticking or valve is sticking can Marvel oil give it a
>fix?? how much would one put in to a 1.9L?? pint qt gallon?? why did the
>lifter over
>> charge after a few minutes of running? is it due to it sitting for a few
>days and came down a bit and i adjusted to a mid point?? should i run it
>around the
>> block and down the freeway a bit and get it nice and warm put it on the
>lift and when it is cool enough adjust to 0 lash??
>> i do feel good that im getting closer to finding out what it needs. just
>need to figure out how to make it right is all now. thanks for all your help
>all of you !!! still
>> looking for more suggestions though. Jonce
>>
>>
>> >It is possible to have the lifters over charged as you call it and that
>is
>> >why you would back off of the preloading of the lifter
>> >I also suggest that they not be preloaded until the problem is sorted out
>> >preloading is turning the adjusting screw past when the adjusting screw
>> >touchs the valve stem the correct responce of the lifter would be to hold
>> >the push rod firm and the screw would open the valve as its turned. The
>air
>> >bound lifter would have some give and move the push rod on lifters that
>do
>> >this I would go back to .006ths and put some more miles on it
>>
>> >I dont understand how you got from 175 pounds to 25 pound of compression
>> >Did you remove the rockers and have you pulled the valve covers to see if
>> >there is a problem in the valve train the lifters can hnag up on the
>edges
>> >of the lifters
>> >the rings need oil to seal and you say the engine smell of gas its
>possible
>> >that you have gas washed the cylinders
>> >I would start with another compression test this time adding some oil for
>> >the second test and then see whats up
>> >lots of other possiblitys why the compression has gone down rusty
>cylinders
>> >carbon on the valves and so on
>> >call me this afternoon if you like and we can go over the problem
>>
>>
>> >Bob Donalds
>> >Boston Engine exchange
>> >1 508 358 6264
>>
>>
>>
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Jonce Fancher" <streetbugs@WHISPLLC.COM>
>> >To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> >Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:46 AM
>> >Subject: lifter thinking?? 1.9L still a problem child (update)
>>
>>
>> >> Hi again
>> >> can a lifter or lifters over charge or open valves to much to not allow
>> >> the valves to fully close if there is no combustion in the chamber??
>> >> whould the valves
>> >> need to be adjusted once fully charged up after running to make sure
>the
>> >> valves fully close. could this be? due to wear or missadjustments or ??
>if
>> >> i adjust
>> >> my valves to 0 lash on each cylinder after valves are charged (has been
>> >> run). do the pushrods expand like the old aluminum air cooled vw ones??
>> >> thanks
>> >> Jonce
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hi Bob and others here is the time line on some of the things that i
>have
>> >> done with in the last 2 months to this PIG aka PITA.
>> >> *purchased long block from previous owner 1.5 years ago. he had it
>sitting
>> >> on a pallet for 6 months prior.
>> >> *did a compression test on the floor with old trans hooked up and
>cranked
>> >> it over and tested all 4 cyl. to find 165 to 170 compression
>> >> * 2 weeks before 1st camp trip i pulled the old motor and installed the
>> >> good used as from what i could tell and replaced most seals, water
>pump,
>> >> most hoses,
>> >> plugs, wires, cap, rotor, etc.etc.
>> >> * installed motor with all the ac and power steering and all new
>exhaust
>> >> seals and such
>> >> * fired it up and bled the system after adjusting the timing as per the
>> >> bentley. ran sorta crappy and chattered since i believe the lifters
>were
>> >> charging. drove
>> >> quick around town and the lifters got quiet. took it home and checked
>and
>> >> fixed a small air leak and exhaust leak.
>> >> * went on the camp trip of 40 miles each way came back and still ran
>sorta
>> >> bad. pulled the injectors and had rebuilt refurbished and reinstalled
>with
>> >> new
>> >> hoses and all. checked all electrical and vacuum
>> >> *went on second camp trip and still ran like crap yet another 40 mile
>trip
>> >> each way got home and started in on it again. swapped with good used
>AFM,
>> >> ECU,
>> >> hall sender, idle stabilizer, distributor, and cleaned and checked all
>> >> plugs and sensor connections and grounds.
>> >> *had someone help yesterday to check spark since i know i had plenty of
>> >> fuel you can smell it a mile away. the spark was fair on 1/3 and good
>on
>> >> 2/4
>> >> *late last night i went ahead and tested compression and found 25 psi
>or
>> >> so in 1/3 and 2/4 in the 150s
>> >>
>> >> so the question is what do i do now? you say to drive it which i can.
>im
>> >> not aposed to driving it it runs rich and on 2 cylinders but runs
>enough
>> >> to get down
>> >> the street at a snails pace. im not sure what you mean by preload the
>> >> valves. i glanced at the bentley and im not sure if i fully understand
>the
>> >> proceedure. do
>> >> i just adjust them just like a type 1 but butt the adjusting screw up
>to
>> >> the valve and in turn in 2 turns. is this with the engine cold or
>> >> hot/warm? the valves do
>> >> not chatter now and havent since they shut up on its maiden voyage. i
>can
>> >> swap plugs on 1/3 everytime i drive it if need be. i did change the oil
>> >> just last
>> >> week when i got back from camp trip #2. also camp trip #3 is in 2 weeks
>so
>> >> if i can just drive it i will. it doesnt over heat or make any bad
>noise
>> >> just runs like
>> >> crap since the compression is low in 2 cylinders. i can rev it and it
>> >> seems to pull once over 4k rpm. is there somewhere that has how to set
>> >> valves for
>> >> someone that is well versed in the aircooled crowd but sorta out of it
>on
>> >> the waterbox?? sorry for this being so long im just at a loss and my
>> >> family loves to
>> >> camp in this thing and i really dont want to let them down. c-ya Jonce
>> >> Hell i can over rev with the best of them if that is what it takes
>> >>
>> >>>This sounds like the cylinders got filled with oil and the compression
>> >>>numbers and the fouling are goimg to resolve themselves when you drive
>it
>> >>>You cant tell much from a cold engine other than its worth a shot at
>> >>>starting and sorting out. you may need to replace the plugs more than
>once
>> >>>and change the oil often while you sort it out to prevent the gas build
>up
>> >>>in the oil
>> >>>wait until the engine settles down after it been hot a couple of times
>> >>>then
>> >>>preload the valves
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>goiing faster miles an hour with the radio on
>> >>>I remain
>> >>>Bob Donalds
>> >>>Boston Engine Exchange
>> >>
>> >>>----- Original Message -----
>> >>>From: "Jonce Fancher" <streetbugs@WHISPLLC.COM>
>> >>>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> >>>Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 6:48 AM
>> >>>Subject: Re: 1.9L still a problem child (update)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>> im lost on this one as well. i will try adjusting the valves loose
>like
>> >>>> i
>> >>>> do for a type 1 motor and do another compression test. also im
>wondering
>> >>>> if the cylinders
>> >>>> had a bunch of residual oil in them when i did the compression test
>> >>>> before
>> >>>> install that it sealed evereything. the guy i got this from had R/R
>the
>> >>>> rings and
>> >>>> head gaskets a few years prior to pulling for a inline conversion.
>motor
>> >>>> was fine on pulling but didnt have a compression check before pulled.
>im
>> >>>> going to try
>> >>>> and do a valve adjust tonight. thanks Jonce
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>You did a compression test after it sat on a crate for 2 years, and
>it
>> >>>>>had up to 170 lbs. compression.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>You install it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>The compression drops to 15 lbs.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>How can this be?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>Either a valve is hanging open, or the rings magically got stuck
>> >>>>>somehow.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>Back off the valve's and re adjust them first.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>Then see if you have any better compression.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jonce Fancher
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 57 Single Cab
>> >>>> 66 Sunroof Bug
>> >>>> 66 Variant Squareback
>> >>>> 71 Sunroof Bus
>> >>>> 75 911S Sunroof
>> >>>> 84 Vanagon "Godfried"
>> >>>> 85 Vanagon Westi
>> >>>> 2003 10 Passenger Sprinter
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Fancher's Upholstery Inc. - www.fanchers.com
>> >>>> Not-A-VW Club- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jaransont3/notavwclub/
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Jonce Fancher
>> >>
>> >> 57 Single Cab
>> >> 66 Sunroof Bug
>> >> 66 Variant Squareback
>> >> 71 Sunroof Bus
>> >> 75 911S Sunroof
>> >> 84 Vanagon "Godfried"
>> >> 85 Vanagon Westi
>> >> 2003 10 Passenger Sprinter
>> >>
>> >> Fancher's Upholstery Inc. - www.fanchers.com
>> >> Not-A-VW Club- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jaransont3/notavwclub/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Jonce Fancher
>> >>
>> >> 57 Single Cab
>> >> 66 Sunroof Bug
>> >> 66 Variant Squareback
>> >> 71 Sunroof Bus
>> >> 75 911S Sunroof
>> >> 84 Vanagon "Godfried"
>> >> 85 Vanagon Westi
>> >> 2003 10 Passenger Sprinter
>> >>
>> >> Fancher's Upholstery Inc. - www.fanchers.com
>> >> Not-A-VW Club- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jaransont3/notavwclub/
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonce Fancher
>>
>> 57 Single Cab
>> 66 Sunroof Bug
>> 66 Variant Squareback
>> 71 Sunroof Bus
>> 75 911S Sunroof
>> 84 Vanagon "Godfried"
>> 85 Vanagon Westi
>> 2003 10 Passenger Sprinter
>>
>> Fancher's Upholstery Inc. - www.fanchers.com
>> Not-A-VW Club- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jaransont3/notavwclub/
Jonce Fancher
57 Single Cab
66 Sunroof Bug
66 Variant Squareback
71 Sunroof Bus
75 911S Sunroof
84 Vanagon "Godfried"
85 Vanagon Westi
2003 10 Passenger Sprinter
Fancher's Upholstery Inc. - www.fanchers.com
Not-A-VW Club- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jaransont3/notavwclub/
| 
