Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:12:17 -0700
Reply-To: Tom Sinclair <neeemo@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tom Sinclair <neeemo@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: The fuel of choice of the world?
In-Reply-To: <20050908203933.90713.qmail@web33515.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Good luck with aaaaaaalllll that.
Tom
--- Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It's easy to to blame corporations, but if we
> did'nt have any, we's be complaining about the
> domninant Chinese government- after all- they are
> trying to buy our corporations .
>
> Oil is OK- the global warming is just left-wing
> nonsense- a volcano is worse, and there is no
> proof that we are causing it.
>
> There is evidence that the earth once was covered
> a cloud , maybe it's returning.
> think of all the fires that burned before
> electricity or oil was used for heating, and even
> during the industrial age all the smokestacks .
> And horse and cattle dung gives off methane-
> another harmful hydocarbon to breathe.
>
> We all have to burn something, everything we burn
> releases somthing into the atmossphere.
> All things are slowly burning, or oxydizing.
>
> We have to burn something. Using less is a good
> idea- now to make that applicable it has to be
> rationed- as people around the world are
> naturally wasteful and recycling drives up the
> cost of good and services.
>
> We had fuel conservation in the 80's- I don't
> hear anyone saying let's bring back the old regs.
> That's because there is no shortage, just that
> there is more demand and the "pipeline" is not
> big enough.
>
> Local cities here raised garbage collecting rates
> as recylcing efforts cut inot their revenues.
> There's no proof that using less will lower the
> price, it will just send the resulting surplus
> overseas.
>
> So, using less oil will raise the prices as the
> companies seek to recover the lost revenue.
>
> War for oil? Where is this oil that Bush stole?
>
> In his own private reserve I suppose.
>
> Too bad we don't have leader ship like we had in
> the days of imperialism. We's have plenty of Arab
> oil and no terrorism.
>
> Now we are at the mercy of the world giants and
> Arab sheeks.
>
>
> Global warming is the political football of the
> left.
>
> If we think that hippies in Idaho are going to
> turn around the energy industry, good luck to
> them.
>
> Big oil corporations will be the first to mass
> produce alternative fuels if we boycott dino
> sucessfully.
>
> And I already use less fuel- soon everclear may
> be the economical solution when we pay $70.00 a
> tankful in our Vanagons .
>
> Diesel is noisy, it stinks, french-fry oil needs
> reconditioning, it's not available , as it's
> being sold , bought up by small Biodiesel firms,
> and we have lost's a highway driving to do in
> this state of Washington.
>
> There is no light rail- that is hung -up on a gas
> tax initiative - the state wants to raise the gas
> tax- we are already the highest in the nation-
> and this is a Democrat state.
>
> So much for the Dems being the champions of the
> under-privledged and under-paid
>
> I drive less, I make each trip count for more
> than one purpose, the busses take forover to go
> anywhere in the burbs.
>
> What do we do to keep our own energy production
> home?
>
> What's to stop Biofuel companies from selling
> home-produced fuel, like our Alaskan crude, to
> other countries?
>
> Robert
>
> 1982 Westfalia
>
>
> --- Tom Sinclair <neeemo@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
> > --- Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@YAHOO.COM>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > > So now we should abandon our budgets and
> > accept
> > > any cost we can't afford because it's the
> > "moral"
> > > thing to do.
> > > Conditioned? By whom? Big-Price Brother?
> >
> > Conditioned by the dominant corporate culture
> > where
> > little matters but the bottom line. What
> > budget? By
> > your own figures diesels are cheaper to run.
> > The fuel
> > is 15% more expensive, but they get 25% better
> > mileage.
> >
> > > > we would be less reliant on foreign
> > sources.
> > >
> > > Questions to ask:
> > >
> > > If indeed we are too reliant on foreign oil,
> > > why is the Alaskan oil being sold to South
> > > America?Yes- it was on my local TV news
> > > yesterday- we are sending oil to South
> > America- I
> > > thought they had their own oil wells?
> > >
> > > Secondly , why does'nt the fuel conservation
> > act
> > > re-instate the 55 mph speed limit?
> > >
> > > The use -less strategy to lower prices will
> > only
> > > send the surplus to China and eslwhere.
> > >
> > > We need to ask why are'nt we exporting more
> > > bicycles, as they are much more used to
> > riding
> > > them than we are- now they all want to become
> > the
> > > world's automobile society? It was great that
> > the
> > > Chinese wanted to western dress, music, etc.
> > > We did'nt see it coming, and from everything
> > > thing I have read, the demand from there and
> > > other places is driving up the cost of fuel.
> > >
> > > They have over a billion people- how many
> > > automobiles and trucks will that be?
> > >
> > > And do they care about clean air standards?
> > > I'm not aware of it. That will be one giant
> > > so-called greenhouse gas generator.
> > > And we will be the ones riding the bicycles.
> > > I have mine on my bike rack on my Vanagon-
> > just
> > > in case.
> >
> > All good points that have nothing to do with my
> > argument. Why are we selling oil to other
> > countries?
> > See above: "Dominant Corporate Culture"
> > >
> > >
> > > > Diesels
> > > > also have the option of running a largely
> > > > renewable
> > > > fuel such as biodiesel. Some intrepid souls
> > are
> > > > even
> > > > making their own biodiesel or running waste
> > > > veggie oil
> > > > rung from the arteries of junk-food
> > junkies.
> > >
> > > How many of us have the time, knowledge or
> > > resources to produce our own fuel?
> >
> > Biodiesel is becoming available all over the
> > country--even here in backward, redder than red
> > Idaho.
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Emissions are an issue, but many modern
> > TDI's
> > > > have
> > > > catalytic converters and are very
> > > > clean--especially
> > > > compared to anything from 1982. I'm looking
> > > > into
> > > > running a "cat" on my TDI if I can find the
> > > > proper
> > > > unit and some room for it. Biodiesel also
> > makes
> > > > for
> > > > cleaner emissions.
> > >
> > >
> > > Producing fuel from plants is expensive to
> > > produce, more than from oil.
> >
> > More bottom line. How much have/are wars over
> > oil
> > going to cost?
> >
> > >
> > > Diesels running on vegetable oil may be
> > cleaner
> > > but right now it's not available. It makes no
> > > sense to promote something that's not
> > available,
> > > as if farmers with government support can
> > provide
> > > all of our energy needs.
> > >
> > > It's true that growing plants replace oxygen
> > for
> > > carbon dioxide, that trade-off is missing
> > from
> > > crude oil production and use, but the earth
> > is
> > > full of oil and all the refining technology
> > is in
> > > place.
> > >
> > > The real problem is that our energy is a
> > world
> > > commodity, and local energy and products are
> > sold
> > > to the highest bidders elswhere, and we have
> > all
> > > heard the demand is growing in places like
> > China
> > > and India= Supply and demand.
> >
> > Right--supply and demand. Less demand=less
> > cost.
> >
> > > So when talking about lowering the price of
> > fuel
> > > forget about it.
> > > If we could form fuel cooperatives where we
> > all
> > > invested in Biofuel, alcohol and Biodoesel,
> > how
> > > much would it cost?
> > >
> > > And most "green" products are sold at higher
> > > prices, the pitch that you are helping to
> > save
> > > the choking people in Kyoto, or save the
> > snails,
> > > whales, or bales.
> >
> > I love snails with garlic and butter.
> >
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Robert
> > >
> > > 1982 Westfalia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> > > >
> > > > --- Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@YAHOO.COM>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Ok- SO everyone is saying they want a
> > Diesel
> > > > -in
> > > > > your Vanagon.
> > > > >
> > > > > Diesel sells in the Seattle area for
> > $3.12 a
> > > > > gallon right now.
> > > > >
> > > > > I use regular gas @ 2.72 a gallon.
> > > > >
> > > > > I get about 24 mpg if I drive under 60
> > mph.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your Diesel Vanagon gets 30 mpg, or about
> > a
> > > > range
> > > > > of 480 miles per tank.
> > > > >
> > > > > My gas Vanagon gets 384 miles per tank at
> > 55
> > > > mph.
> > > > >
> > > > > My full tank of 16 gallons costs $43.52.
> > > > >
> > > > > Diesel tankful costs $49.92
> > > > >
> > > > > Diesel saves $6.40 and gives about 48
> > extra
> > > > miles
> > > > > for that cost.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I fill a gerry can with $6.40 in gas,
> > I
> > > > can
> > > > > extend my range to 432 miles.
> > > > >
> > > > > SO even at the price 0f $3.12 a gallon,
> > you
> > > > still
> > > > > can get an extra 48 miles over the gas .
> > > > >
> > > > > 48 miles , $6.40 in savings , each tank.
> > > > >
> > > > > $50.00 a tank- sounds cheap , doesn't it?
> > > > >
> > > > > When I got my Vanagon in 1995 it cost
> > only
> > > > $17.00
> > > > > to fill the tank.
> > > > >
> > > > > How do they afford it? The world , that
> > is?
> > > > >
> > > > > Robert
> > > > >
> > > > > 1982 Westfalia
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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