VANAGON archives -- December 2005, week 2 (#368)

Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:31:23 -0500 Reply-To: Derek Drew <derekdrew@RCN.COM> Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> From: Derek Drew <derekdrew@RCN.COM> Subject: Re: Fender Flares - custom made In-Reply-To: <20051213032744.SYZN23711.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@YOU RC05FDFAF94> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Actually, I have the arches on and use them with 245/75/16 tires, so it is possible to mount the arches carefully in such a manner to install these huge tires (30.5").

Note that just to be sure, I did trim the front section of the front arches so that these were less wide across as one moved to the bottom of their extension at the front half of the front wheelwells. A non-aggressive four wheeler would not have had to do this type of trimming.

By then installing the rear sections of the front arches set further back than VW originally envisioned, I was able to mount the arches in such a way that there was 0 penalty in terms of tire clearance. That is, any tire big enough to hit the arches would hit metal simultaneously with hitting the arches, so the limit is the metal, not the arches.

Right now, my giant tires don't hit the metal where you would think -- at either the arches or the wheelwell openings -- but rather about 4" inbound along the rear lower edge of the front wheelwell.

So, while it may be true, as David says below, that tires larger than 29" might hit the arches if the arches are mounted in the factory positions, I have managed to mount the arches in such a way as to accommodate 30.5" tall tires, even at full compression of the suspension. I had the courage to try this after Eric Abercrombie emailed me pictures of German syncros that had the arches mounted and also had 245/75/16 tires so I knew that it could be done.

After a lot of gawking at the wheelwell openings, I have come to the conclusion that most vans desiring larger than stock openings at the wheel wells can simply sawzall and cut the wheelwell openings to a larger size and then touch up the sawed area with touchup paint. What I observed was that when vans were prepared this way, via a fairly Conan level of delicacy, that casual observers of the vehicle could not tell that anything had been changed from stock.

Accordingly, I am of the opinion that owners who would rather skip the considerable cost of these arches are safe to cut the metal out of their wheelwells, touch these wheelwells up, and then skip installing any kind of arches at all, without creating a butchered look to the vehicle. This is now my recommended procedure.

As for the plastic, note that VW keeps changing the nature on the plastic on these arches. Accordingly, you will see plastic with different plastic ratings depending on the section. A front section might have a plastic rating of 4, whereas the rear of the front section might have a plastic rating of 5. I have yet to sell or install a set of arches where the plastic ratings actually matched in all six pieces. While this is annoying, it does not really show. I found that the greatest variation in the plastic ratings is on the rear edge of the front flares. These pieces are sometimes an extremely supple rubber (flexible), and sometimes very stiff plastic. The implication is that the flare sets at VW might be manufactured at different locations and/or with different grade materials depending on the year of manufacture, and there is no trying to control for this. I am not sure that I have acquired a view that any particular plastic rating is better than any other. You can see the plastics rating stamped on the inside of the flares in a kind of a clock wheel, with an arrow pointing to the number.

In order to mount the rear sections of my front wheel arches, I had to relocate the screw studs further to the rear of the vehicle so that they could make it through a metal section of the van's metal arch material since I had cut away the metal from even the area where a 16 " van would have had it.

At 10:27 PM 12/12/2005, you wrote: >I've seen the VolksCafe wheel arches, these are fiberglass ones that were >made in Mexico. Buddy of mine in Seattle bought a set and we are both quite >disappointed with the quality of them. They are strictly for looks rather >than function and only for looks after a lot of work. > >Derek is right; there are three variations of wheel arches. > >1 - TriStar: No sheet metal cutting is required. These are big and do >restrict the size of tire you can install by about 1" - I got rid of my >TriStar arches on my TriStar as quick as I could due to the clearance issue. > >2 - Syncro 16: You are looking at cutting 25 to 30mm of sheet metal at the >rear of each wheel arch. These wheel arches fit very snugly and allow for >larger tires to be used. I think Puch installed them to cover you the >cutting they had to do to make the larger tires fit. > >3 - Postal: These are not the fat style like the TriStar, they look like a >14" version of the Syncro 16 units. They were only installed on the front >wheels. Now, the reason for this is the wheel arches up front attach to the >DOOR an not the fender as many people believe. The reason for them to go on >the door is so they cover the fender so when you are driving in the mud, >open the door and then get out, you will not get your pants dirty - very >important for the postie! The passenger side postal ones also have a small >circle cut in them for clearance for the filler cap. > >Also, the composition of the wheel arches is not ridged plastic like the >Golf and Jetta II. They are more playable and have some give to them - >almost sort of rubbery. The front door arches attach via pop rivets. The >front body sections are attached via four M5 studs, requiring holes to be >drilled. The rear ones have at least six or seven M5 studs again requiring >holes to be drilled. I hate installing wheel arches! > >If you are going for tires larger than 29" tall, then forget about wheel >arches. Even with my 520mm hub to fender lift kit, my 225/75R16s will ever >so slightly rub under full compression if I have the wheels turned just the >right way. I might hear them rub say five or six times a year. So >basically I have the largest that will fit up front with wheel arches. My >camper with the 215/85R16 could never use wheel arches. When I get the body >work done, I will be getting the fender opening extended rather than cut - >so to the untrained eye the fenders would look normal, but if you measure, >they would be about 30 to 35mm more open. > >David Marshall > >Fast Forward Automotive Inc. >4356 Quesnel-Hixon Road >Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3 > >Internet: http://www.fastforward.ca >Email: sales@fastforward.ca > >- Engine Conversions and Accessories for classic water-cooled Volkswagens >- Electrical harness fabrication and customization > >-----Original Message----- >From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of >Derek Drew >Sent: December 12, 2005 14:56 >To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >Subject: Re: Fender Flares - custom made > >Peter at Volks Cafe made some copies of the factory OEM originals, >but he was so horrified at the poor quality of them that he is >selling his copies dirt cheap and does not tell anybody about them. > >His copies were made in Mexico. > >I don't think he has them listed on www.van-cafe.com but you can >email about it. > >Believe it or not, there is also another type of flare that none of >us knows about -- it is a special flare made for the German postal service. > >I think I have 4 sets of the 16" flares here other than the set I >installed on my van. > >At 05:43 PM 12/12/2005, you wrote: > >In a message dated 12/12/05 5:22:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >inua@CHARTER.NET writes: > > > > > > > > > > Remember, if you copy crap, you end up with crap. > > > > > > > > > >well, lets make sure not to copy the Winkler ones then !! LOL > > > >chris > >_______________________________________________ >Derek Drew >CEO >ConsumerSearch, Inc. >New York, NY & Washington DC >derekdrew@rcn.com >202-966-7907 >(cell) 703-408-1532 > >http://www.ConsumerSearch.com/ >Time Magazine, June 19, 2003 > "50 Best Websites"

________________________________________________________ Derek Drew Washington, DC derekdrew@rcn.com Phone 202-966-7907 Email me for viscous coupling s (Cell 703-408-1532) '90 Syncro Westfalia... ...seen off-road at http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/Syncro_Madness_Area.htm ...seen with 30.5" tall tires at http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/images/dereks245_75_16.jpg Note: most valuable Vanagon sites on the planet (for owners) are: http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?S1=vanagon http://gerry.vanagon.com/files/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro http://www.vanagon.com http://www.syncro.org Many of my Syncro list postings consolidated http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/messagesearch?query=212-580-6486 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/messagesearch?query=202-966-7907 My refrigerator article: http://www.vanagon.com/info/articles/Refrigerator/Reefer_Madness.htm All About 16" Wheels And The CV-900.htm http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/All_About_16-Wheels_And_The_CV_900.htm All About Viscous Couplings http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/vanagon/viscous_couplings_vanagon_syncro.htm How To Live With Heavy List Volume--Mail Filters http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/7403 My article that shows how to deal with insurance companies: http://gerry.vanagon.com/files/auto-insurance-madness.html To read some material about how to add a front differential lock to your syncro http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/13105 To view Wolfgang's incredibly informative wheel article http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/fitbigtiresonvanagon.htm To view Tim Smith's incredibly useful gearing calculator http://users.rcn.com/derekdrew/syncrotireandgearratios.xls To view two articles about how to think about improving your gears at transmission rebuild time http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/7207 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/7221 To view an overview article about choices in larger sized tires see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/11535 To view some 16" Trailing Arms that enable much larger tires see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syncrolist/files/Wheels%2C%20Tires%20%26%20Gearing/Wheel%20%26%20Tire%20Photos/16_Inch_Trailing_Arm.jpg My article about belt protectors and CV joint protectors http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Syncro/message/6112 SYNCRO OWNERS WHO DRIVE OFF THE ROAD: You only get to change your ring and pinions once every 10 years because that's how long the average syncro transmission goes before its next rebuild. If you want bigger tires and more ground clearance start planning your higher number ring and pinion sets right now so you can take advantage of your next trans rebuild.

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