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Date:         Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:17:04 -0500
Reply-To:     "Daniel L. Katz" <katzd54@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         "Daniel L. Katz" <katzd54@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: coolant options
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

be careful here:

if ethylene and propylene glycols are mixed, then it isn't straight forward determining the level of freeze/boilover protection, at least with an ordinary hydrometer.

2. green color is simply a dye, and is not a reliable indicator of coolant type.

3. propylene glycol may be less toxic than ethylene glycol, but in both cases the chemicals dissolved in used anti-freeze substantially increase toxicity.

On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:26:33 -0800, gary hradek <hradek@YAHOO.COM> wrote:

>Robert, > There is very little difference between Ethylene >Glycol and Propylene Glycol One is a three carbon >alcohol and the other is a two carbon alcohol. They >do nothing more than keep the coolant from freezing or >boiling. The two carbon alcohol is less toxic. > The real difference in coolants has to do with >what they add to make them anticorrosive. You should >not mix the different types of anticorrives but you >could mix the different forms of alcohol. The green >stuff usually contain the phosphate based >anticorrosive while the orange stuff contains the >organic detergent based anticorrosives. Even a small >amount of the green stuff can cause the orange stuff >to sludge so if you change from the green to the >orange it is important to rinse the coolant out until >there is no smell of coolant. Hope this helps. > gary > >--- Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I would like to comment that I have been using >> the orange Havoline or Prestone for about 5 years >> in my inline four. I know it's more of a concern >> for the WBX, so I have been using it in the >> Vanagons I sell. >> >> 2 years goes by fast and it's easy for most >> people to overlook coolant changes like brake >> fluid or power sterring fluid changes. >> >> Whether or not this helps I don't know, I just do >> it as extra insurance and it's cheaper than the >> blue stuff. >> >> I use the Orange since it is Ethylene Glycol, not >> Propylene Glycol as the green stuff is, though >> recently I found some green stuff that has >> ethylene glycol. What gives? >> >> >> Robert >> >> 1982 Westfalia >> 1984 Westfalia >> 1986 Westfalia >> 1987 Jetta >> >> >> >> >> --- gary hradek <hradek@YAHOO.COM> wrote: >> >> > It is likely that the coolant last longer than >> > two >> > years when you drive less. I think the kind >> > of >> > coolant will influence cost of repairs if head >> > coolant >> > leaks are ignored. Phosphate based coolant >> > will >> > damage the head more quickly than organic based >> > coolant if the heads are allowed to leak for a >> > prolonged period of time. The posphate salts >> > become >> > alkaline and cause corrosion. >> > This is not true for the organic based coolant. >> > As to >> > the cause of head leaks I suspect heat and time >> > will >> > find a passage regardless of the type of >> > coolant. >> > Translation: Coolant type or age of coolant >> > does not >> > directly cause head leaks but could indirectly >> > cause a >> > problem. For example if the water pump leaks >> > (old >> > coolant) and the engine over heats, this can >> > cause >> > the heads to begine leaking. I prefer the >> > orange >> > stuff. >> > Gary >> > Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 14:46:32 -0800 >> > From: rpc <populuxe59@YAHOO.COM> >> > Subject: Re: coolant options >> > >> > Florian; >> > I concur with Dan. >> > I have a 1990 2.1 with 177,000 miles with the >> > green >> > stuff. Just make >> > sure you change it every 2 years. I have no >> > idea what >> > the previous >> > owner did. Westfalia.org used to have a topic >> > on >> > that: "clearing the muddy >> > waters" and the author makes a good case for >> > sticking >> > with what we know >> > (prestone) works and doing the 2 year maint. >> > There >> > are too many >> > unknowns with the new "super coolants" in our >> > older >> > engines. I would use the >> > VW blue stuff, but because of various repairs >> > related >> > to >> > cooling/heating I could not justify costs. I >> > have >> > noticed that the regular green >> > prestone is no longer available so I bought 4 >> > gallons--should be good >> > untill I need engine replaced. >> > >> > Chris C 90MV >> > >> > "Daniel L. Katz" <katzd54@YAHOO.COM> wrote: >> > florian: >> > >> > any ethylene glycol based coolant sold at >> > shucks or >> > walmart is "safe" >> > for >> > the wbx. that said, the oem vw blue, as well as >> > conventional types, may >> > provide better protection from water pump >> > cavitation >> > erosion than the >> > new >> > extended life coolants. aside from their >> > extended >> > life, one advantage >> > of >> > the extended life types is that they do not >> > coat metal >> > surfaces, >> > thereby >> > facilitating heat transfer. >> > >> > back in 1998 i took over maintainance on a 1984 >> > 1.9 l >> > with about 150 k >> > mi; >> > it had been using conventional coolant for many >> > years. >> > hearing horror >> > stories of the then new dexcool gelling in >> > older, >> > perhaps dirty cooling >> > systems, and problems with water pump >> > cavitation >> > erosion in pumps >> > designed >> > for conventional coolant, i decided to stay >> > with >> > conventional coolant, >> > and >> > encountered no difficulties, with now about 200 >> > k mi >> > on the engine. at >> > the >> > time i took the system to be chemically >> > passivated for >> > conventional >> > coolant chemistry, right down to the tiniest >> > microscopic level. >> > >> > to avoid corrosion, the main thing is to keep >> > the ph >> > above about 8 (ph >> > is >> > 7 for pure water, 12 for new 100% ethylene >> > glycol). >> > low ph means an >> > acidic >> > solution, which is bad. >> > >> > today i use a 50/50 mix of conventional, green, >> > napa >> > brand ethylene >> > coolant and distilled water for our 1.9 l. >> > >> > dan >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 01:20:35 +0000, Florian >> > Speier >> > wrote: >> > >> > >hi list, >> > > >> > >shopping for adequate wbx coolant starts >> > confusing >> > me. shops only seem >> > to >> > >have the all engines all makes prestone or >> > similar >> > coolant, and when i >> > ask >> > >if that is phosphate free, i get one of two >> > answers: >> > >answer a) if it does not say it is phosphate >> > free it >> > contains >> > phosphate. >> > >answer b) if it says all engines it is fine >> > for >> > aluminum engines and >> > these >> > >require phosphate free coolant, it follows >> > that the >> > coolant is >> > phosphate >> > >free. >> > > >> >=== message truncated === > > > > >__________________________________________ >Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. >Just $16.99/mo. or less. >dsl.yahoo.com


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