Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:14:28 -0500
Reply-To: rsf <feller@CARBONCOW.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: rsf <feller@CARBONCOW.COM>
Subject: Re: Update (not fixed...) Re: FIXED? (and,
advice needed...) (was: Re: low voltage,
starter running intermittently, but alternator is okay?)
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20060124184725.04fa3320@mail-hub.optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
And remember new parts can fail! Just this week my buddy put a new
alternator in his Honda and the VR was bad within days...
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Tim Demarest
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 7:06 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Update (not fixed...) Re: FIXED? (and, advice needed...) (was:
Re: low voltage, starter running intermittently, but alternator is okay?)
Hey Wes,
Sorry you're still having troubles. Those two wires on the back of
the alternator are:
1. From starter to the alternator (the big fat wire
connects from there to the battery).
2. To engine compartment electronics.
The voltage right at the alternator stud should be 14.0 or higher
with the engine running (check after driving around for a while, to make
sure the battery is all topped up and not pulling that voltage down any).
US cars I've looked at usually have 14.5 at this point., but the Bosch
regulators are set a bit lower. Seeing less than 14.0V makes me suspect
alternator troubles. Have you taken out the voltage regulator and checked
the brushes for excess wear? (The Bentley lists the minimum brush lenght).
Pulling the regulator can be done with the alternator in the van, it's just
two screws and 'tilt' it out to clear the brushes.
As far as I know, the critical grounds for starting are the
battery ground strap, and the transmission to body ground strap. Replacing
the battery ground is good, I assume you got in with some emery cloth or
sandpaper and cleaned the area where it attaches to the body? That's a good
thing to do on both ends of the transmission ground also. New grounds
strapped to a dirty, rusty body contact may not help enough.
There's a lighter bonding strap from the left side head to the
left side of the engine compartment. This one doesn't (usually) affect
starting, but may affect charging, and smooth running (since most of the FI
components ground through this). If directly grounding the alternator
didn't make a big difference, then this is unlikely to be the culprit.
At 05:38 PM 1/24/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>So, my van still has the same problems. My success was a false alarm.
>It starts 1 out of 5-10 times, but never turns over slowly. I've
>replaced the ground strap on the battery.
>
>I had the battery tested at an Autozone today (where I hope it's on
>warranty), and it checked out. Also, keep in mind that throughout this
>whole ordeal, I've never jumped the car....
>
>Without any electrical running, I show between 13.25 and 13.5volts at
>the battery, and 13.8 or so volts at the alternator.If I add electrical,
>it can easily drop to 13 volts at the battery, or even a bit less. The
>crimp on the alternator wire does indeed look worn, but not at all
>loose. There are two wires going into the crimp. What two wires are
>these? To the starter and the battery?
>
>Is the bonding strap you're talking about here different from the ground
>cable from the transmission to the frame? Most of this stuff looks old,
>but not actually loose.
>
>I would really appreciate people's suggestions. When I tried grounding
>the alternator directly, it only added something like .04 volts at the
>battery, which hardly seemed worth it.
>
>Thanks!
>Wes
>'84 manual 1.9l
>
>Daniel L. Katz wrote:
>>wes:
>>
>>it would be reasonable to check for a voltage drop across the crimp on the
>>connector at the alternator output, and also between the battery posts and
>>cable clamps. check also for star washers and tight, clean, crimps and
>>connections at all grounds.
>>
>>the wire at the alternator output may a bit short on an '84, and the
>>resulting stress and strain can loosen the crimp. fix could be a new
>>connector crimped and soldered onto #10 wire, then a big wire nut and 3m
>>scotchkote to pot and make a weathertight, strain-free splice into the
>>van's wiring. likelwise, the crimps on the bonding strap that goes between
>>the driver side of the engine and body (near the coil) may also degrade
>>due to stress and strain, causing a resistance, and can be repaired
>>similarly.
>>
>>sounds as if the battery has been run down pretty badly during this
>>episode, and if so, that will shorten its useful life.
>>
>>obviously, the greater the current, the greater the voltage drop across a
>>given resistance, and it might be useful to experiment with various loads
>>and rpms.
>>
>>dan
>>
>>On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:29:55 -0500, Wesley Pegden <wes@CS.UCHICAGO.EDU>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So...
>>>It seems my starting problems have been resolved... after changing the
>>>alternator and letting the battery get a good charge. I'm still
>>>wondering about changing the wire between the alternator and the
>>>battery, to avoid future problems like this. My voltage at the
>>>alternator is 14.0 volts, and at the battery is 13.25. What do people
>>>think?
>>>
>>>Wesley Alden Pegden wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi guys,
>>>>I'm having frustrating electrical (I think) problems.
>>>>
>>>>First, my van ('84 manual) wouldn't start. Headlights would come on
>>(battery okay) and they would dim when I turned the ignition (so power was
>>getting to the starter), but it wouldn't turn. I heard a click when I
>>would turn the key, and again when I would release it.
>>
>>>>I ordered a rebuilt starter, and finally got around to installing it
>>today. It started twice in a row, so I thought it was okay, but then the
>>third time it didn't, and I realized I was back where I started. It
>>starts maybe one out of 5 times, and when it starts, it starts right away.
>>
>>>>The battery is right at 12.0 volts with the car off. With the key
>>turned all the way (but when it fails to start) it drops to 11.4. If it
>>starts, it sits at 11.6. So now I figure maybe my alternator is bad. I
>>had an extra alternator, so I put it in, but absolutely nothing has
>>changed, and so now I'm stumped.
>>
>>>>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
>>>>
>>>>-Wes
>>>>
>>>>
>>
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