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Date:         Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:46:44 -0900
Reply-To:     Mark Tuovinen <mst@AK.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Mark Tuovinen <mst@AK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Anyone install 3 point rear seat belts in camper??
In-Reply-To:  <43DBB1A3.7040501@earthlink.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Mark Drillock is correct on this, one of my primary duties at work is selling parts to body shops including seatbelts. Many newer cars need any seatbelt that was in use at the time of a crash replaced because they have one time use pretensioning devices that make them lock up in a crash. The only other reason I have ever sold a seatbelt, in over twenty years, is because a dog chewed it. There was a recall in the mid `90's for front seatbelt buckles that affected a number of brands of cars in the US, but it was only the buckle that was faulty and not the belt. If rear seat belts were breaking and people getting hurt we would hear about it as it is an issue that affects every one that carries passengers in the back seat. The seatbelts in your vehicle are designed to withstand 6000 pounds of force in a crash which is far more then a nine year old kid will generate at highway speed. Years ago I was hired by Ford Motor Co. as an "expert witness" to testify on their behalf in a case involving a 1966 Mustang and rear seat lap belts. The palintiff had no case and Ford was clearly not responsible for what happened but chose to settle for a nominal sum anyway. The cost of proving their case would have been far more then the settlement which barely covered the plaintiffs attorney's fees during the discovery phase. People in the US sue because the manufacturer has deep pockets and will settle rather then waste time, money, and press coverage on groundless cases. Shoulder belts are much better then lap belts, but both work and neither has a history of failure in a crash. The rear belts in a vanagon, like a lot of vehicles could be designed so that they are less likely to get damaged by the seat mechanism, but the user bears a responsibility to insure that this does not happen also. The plaintiff's in this case suffered a tragic loss but they themselves were as much to blame as anyone. The van was a 1986 model and conformed to the safety require ments for when it was built. The driver lost control on "black ice", this means that he/she was driving too fast for road conditions. Black ice is challenging because it is hard to recognize at times, but the driver is responsible for operating the vehicle in a safe manner and this includes knowing what the traction is like on the road surface. We will never know for sure the condition of the seatbelts prior to the accident, but I would bet that they had sustained prior damage that was ignored by the owners. If I get into a vehicle and the seatbelt is damaged I have a choice, if I choose to use the belt then I accept the risk as well. The same applies for a parent that puts their child in a similar situation. It is recommended that any seatbelt that was in use while in a crash be replaced as it has been stressed and cannot be trusted, the same applies for a belt that has been damaged by the seat mechanism, a dog, the door, etc.

Conclusion, OEM seatbelts work as designed when properly used and maintained. We should all go out to our vans, and other vehicles, to inspect the condition of the seatbelts and replace any that show signs of damage. The lives of our loved ones are depending on us.

Mark in AK

P S They are not called accidents, they are crashes. The word accident implies that it was unpreventable, crashes are preventable ----- Original Message ----- From: mark drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET> Date: Saturday, January 28, 2006 9:02 am Subject: Re: Anyone install 3 point rear seat belts in To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM

> Any breakage of the rear bench seat belt was most likely due to damage > that occurred to it before the accident. I have seen plenty of > them that > have been repeatedly caught up in the bench mechanism with > numerous cuts > to prove it. Others I have seen were clearly exposed to abrasions and > chemicals from items stored under the bench. > > You may be able to argue that the ease with which the seat belts get > damaged is itself a defect but it is not a weakness of the belt itself > IMHO. At some point the owner bears some responsibility to replace > damaged belts and avoid future damage. > > I have also seen plenty of front seat shoulder belts with damage from > gnawing, presumably by pets left in the vehicle while the owner > shoppedor something. > > Mark > > Geza Polony wrote: > > >No, but it's worth doing... > > > >I mis-titled this when I put it on yesterday. It's a lawsuit > brought against > >VW of America by accident victims in Maine about 10 years ago, in > which a > >Vanagon spun out on black ice, killed and maimed their kids > because, as they > >claimed, the seat belts BROKE during the accident! The evidence was > >disallowed in court because the Vanagon had already gone to the > wreckers,>and because of this VW won both the original case and an > appeal. Here's the > >case: > > > >http://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=98-1812.01A > > > >Personally, I believe the testimony of the plaintiffs, even > though I can see > >why the evidence was thrown out. > > > >Conclusion: OEM seatbelts are inadequate, especially in the rear, > because>they don't include shoulder belts and because THEY BREAK > on serious impact. > > > >Sobering thought. Now back to something more fun. > > > > > >Geza > > > > > > > > >


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