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Date:         Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:16:20 -0600
Reply-To:     Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Ethanol is the fuel of the future?
Comments: To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
In-Reply-To:  <43FE7D35.3000303@charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

On Feb 23, 2006, at 9:27 PM, John Rodgers wrote:

> Robert, > > I'm with you. Where is all the water going to come from?

New Orleans. Sorry I just had to say it. But think about it, who else has so much fresh water and chemical infrastructure?

Jim

> That is going > to be a seriously limiting factor on any volume of alcohol production. > > John Rodgers > 88 GL Driver > > Robert Fisher wrote: > >> The thrust of that article was that some company had engineered an >> enzyme >> that would efficiently break down cellulose and extract the sugars (if >> I'm >> remembering this correctly) out of almost whatever plant matter in >> which it >> happened to be- the idea being that you didn't have to use the corn, >> you >> could use the stalk and the husks. Taken to its logical conclusion >> this >> means that the millions or whatever tons of waste plant matter >> discarded >> each year could be turned toward ethanol production without tapping >> the food >> supply itself. Basically the idea is you build the processing plant >> near >> farms or food processing facilities so you don't have to truck the >> waste >> plant mass very far, and then the fuel is distributed outward from the >> plant. You would have several smaller distillery/refineries all over >> instead >> of massive centralized refineries like we have now with oil. This >> would also >> help with problems with supply like those that happened with the >> hurricanes. >> IIRC, the enzyme was also more effective in getting sugars out of high >> sugar-yield crops; if you could expect to get X amount out of your >> corn, >> sugar cane or sugar beets, then you would get X+ out of them with the >> enzyme. >> They also reported that they have done small area trials with this and >> the >> model has worked as expected in those trials. >> Part of the article was about current and near-future engines that are >> supposed to be ethanol compatible, which led to my original question >> about >> the WBX. My other question was, where is the water supposed to come >> from? >> >> Cya, >> Robert >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Wesley Pegden" <wes@CS.UCHICAGO.EDU> >> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:03 PM >> Subject: Re: Ethanol is the fuel of the future? >> >> >>> Sorry to revive this old thread, but here's more food for thought. >>> They >>> say that a pound of food requires a pound a oil to produce. Unless >>> that >>> ratio is much better for ethanol, we're no better off. From the >>> linked >>> article, this sounds promising: getting ethanol from switch grass >>> almost >>> sounds like getting it for free. But every time I see one of those >>> "go >>> green" GM commercials with SUV's and cornfields, I'm overcome with >>> skepticism. Call my crazy, but I have a feeling that every >>> ineffective >>> way of reducing oil dependence will be pushed as hard as possible >>> before >>> we actually move onto to the effective ones. >>> >>> -Wes >>> >>> Evan Mac Donald wrote: >>> >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>> I seem to recall a thread on this a few months ago- what needs to >>>> be >>>> done to a WBX to burn ethanol properly? Higher compression...? >>>> This brought to mind the Zetec conversion, among others- what are >>>> the >>>> current conversion options that will handle ethanol readily? >>>> >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>> In general, an alcohol-fueled engine runs slightly cooler and gets >>>> poorer milage than a gasoline-fueled one. This is mostly because of >>>> two >>>> related factors. Alcohol burns cooler than gasoline, and does not >>>> have >>>> the same energy density. You need to burn more than a gallon of >>>> alcohol >>>> to get the same amount of enegy that you get from a gallon of >>>> gasoline. >>>> But, as was mentioned in the article, the emissions from burning >>>> that >>>> more-than-a-gallon are far less. And that is before you consider >>>> some of >>>> the other factors involved in gasoline production. Tranport efforts, >>>> production problems, the list is long. There are lots of costs, and >>>> not >>>> all are monetary. >>>> Personally, I liked the part for Brazil about NOT sending all that >>>> money out of country, and being able to keep in at home. That looked >>>> good >>>> for their economy. Any country that sends lots of money away is >>>> asking >>>> for trouble. >>>> >>>> >> >> >


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