Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:50:42 -0600
Reply-To: George Thorburn <thorgk@ACCESSCOMM.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: George Thorburn <thorgk@ACCESSCOMM.CA>
Subject: Re: Power loss with 15" wheels?
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
>>I know just the road. The Rattle Snake Grade... WA-OR border. Remember
>>that grade George... on your way to Catherine Creek last year? Just the
>>hill for coasting....
Phil,
It's not coasting when you are turning sharp to the left or right or testing
the brakes every 100 yards or less. We can wait at the top of the hill and
sample some of the wine or Big Rock Traditional Ale you left beside the
road.
George
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Zimmerman" <philzimm1@oberon.ark.com>
To: "George Thorburn" <thorgk@accesscomm.ca>; "Loren Busch"
<starwagen@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: Power loss with 15" wheels?
George & Loren,
{That makes your tires roll 4% further per revolution than Lorens.}
Heck George, (the above) answers this dilemma without all the
rocket-science, third-order calculus calculation and SWAG assertions
that have been offered so far.... I roll 4% further ALL THE FRIGGEN
TIME! Up hill, down hill, around the curves... everywhere. Yah hear
that Loren? Gads, I have been travelling like 4% further than you
whenever we have been travelling together and I use Canadian money too,
that adds an additional 10%. Crap, 14% more in total.... I aint
travelling with Starwagon no more... just costs me way too much in
time, money, wear and tear on my poor overworked Westie. Gee... I'm
gonna trash my big bad-boy tires an wheels and get me some little
weenie "slammed" wheels and tires. Like some 10" rims from a
Mini-Cooper and a set of wheelbarrow tires... wonder if wheelbarrow
tires are available in 6 plies?? I am sure Lar Chase will chime in here
and give me sh*t for running an unsafe under-rated tire/wheel
combination ..... 8<)
{I also think Loren's van sits a little closer to the ground.}
For sure, he (Loren) suffers from acute acrophobia. Gotta keep him real
close to the ground all the time (that's why he stargazes). It is
rumored that he can't even sleep in the upper bunk.... well errr, both
of us have removed or upper bunks though.... but this has more to do
with our need to carry more stuff with us when we travel and that we
are both just too damn lazy to climb-up-stairs to go to sleep. When yah
sleep down-stairs all yah gotta do is "fall" into bed... no climbing
whatsoever!
Ok, enough of my crazy-stupid sarcasm... now to the serious tire/wheel
stuff!
Loren mentioned the weight issue of Starwagons bumpers and stuff
inside. Perhaps but, I have a SA Frame Hitch inside that aluminum rear
bumper. Weights a ton (overstatement) by itself. I wouldn't be
surprised if our Vans didn't weigh-in within a few hundred pounds of
each-other? Ok Loren, next time we travel together it's weigh-in
time..... not you and me personally but our Vans!
A significant issue George mentions is the air-flow around the Van. My
Canoe adds about an additional 56 sq.ft. of surface area to the Vans
already dirty 440 sq.ft. This roughly equates to a 12% increase of
surface area. I would expect the Canoe's shape to be more laminar-like
than the Vans brick-like shape. But drag is drag... all adds up in the
end. I vaguely recall the formula for drag/friction loss is at a
cube-root rate? Where the more basic F=MA (coasting in a vacuum) is
more of a 1 to 1 directly proportional thing. Without doing the
rocket-science math thing (me too lazy... recalling, I sleep downstairs
ALL the time), I suspect, the added drag I carry around with the Canoe
exceeds the differences in the weights of our respective Vans?
Ok Loren, another testing problem we can do on our next road trip.
Gravity coasting tests! Soap-Box Derby like. I can see the road
already. At the top where we begin the coasting... there is all this
stuff piled by the side of the road.... Canoe, bike, Bagawest, trailer
hitches, extra batteries, cases of wine/gin..... Heh George, wanna get
in on all this fun? I know just the road. The Rattle Snake Grade...
WA-OR border. Remember that grade George... on your way to Catherine
Creek last year? Just the hill for coasting....
later guys..... Phil
----------------------------
On Mar 5, 2006, at 07:53 AM, George Thorburn wrote:
>>I run 205:65X16 Nokan. 26.4" Dia. when new. So, a bit larger in
diameter than stock.
>>Why Starwagon out-coasts mine down hill? Loren is just allot
"slicker".
Hey Phil,
I wonder if your bike rack and canoe rack would add much air resistance
compared to Loren's van. I know you had a bike on the back of your van
and canoe on the roof. (Check out the panorama picture from
Catherine Creek that Loren posted last fall.
www.pbase.com/labusch/oregon2005) When you are flying a box down a
hill any little air flow advantages probably add up.
George
'85 Westfalia