Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:02:54 -0500
Reply-To: robertmstewart <robertmstewart@MAC.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: robertmstewart <robertmstewart@MAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Design of a New Microbus
In-Reply-To: <C02E0658.F180%thomas.myers@xerox.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
To everyone else who emailed me directly,
Thanks for the support, glad to see I am not the only one seeing the
positives of design.
I often review the customizations that we all do to our vans as we flex our
own need to be creative and expand on some functional need for our vehicles.
It would be interesting to create our own list of ideas for what we would
want in a new Vanagon/Microbus like vehicle, possibly one as a passenger
van, one as a camper/passenger van. It would be interesting to see what we
could come with as a group. Maybe even submit the ideas to VW?
I am not sure these days if they are they are owned by anybody or their own
business entity, especially since that ad for VW partnering with one of the
US auto manufacturers.
Either way it might be interesting to hear everyone ideal van concepts.
--
Rob
NYC/Long Beach, NY
88 Wolfsburg, Silver
on 3/3/06 2:42 PM, Thomas Myers at thomas.myers@XEROX.COM wrote:
> Good points Rob -
>
> There a lot of really good examples lately of letting the designers take the
> wheel of product development without stopping the process at the start with
> Engineering roadblocks. Apple computer has demonstrated continuously with
> the small engineering details of their products that - creating an emotional
> design and then inspiring engineering to help make it a reality can really
> work to deliver great products.
>
> Another good example - have you seen the Motorola Razr phone?
>
> That phone put Motorola to the front of the cell phone pack in one punch
> Because people just HAD TO HAVE THE PHONE. The development story
> Is a good example of letting the designers create the emotional appeal
> without the initial restrictions of "we've never done that.." "it cannot be
> done" and then getting engineering caught up in the wave..
>
>
> Some details on the development..
>
> http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item.jhtml?id=4992&t=innovation
>
>
> The New Beetle is another good example - VW's in house germany-based
> designers were WAY TO CLOSE to the company engineers with their thinking.
> Hence you get the evolutionary development of the Golf...
>
> It took their california guys J.Mays and co..( who were 3000 miles from
> engineering.) to come up with the New Beetle which basically turned
> everyone's attention back to VW. They came up with ConceptOne because they
> were Beetle fans and did not have any german engineers crabbing about the
> front engine compartment not being big enough....
>
> The curved body structure of the beetle surprised VW engineering with it's
> inherent crashworthyness BTW.
>
>
> So while the microbus study was a bit pie in the sky - I would not quickly
> dismiss the abilities of a very inspired engineer!
>
>
>
> Tom Myers
> 90 Westy
> Rochester, New York
>
>
> - oh yeah - my other signature file :O)
>
>
> Thomas A. Myers
> Designer, Industrial Design Human Interface Department
> Xerox Corporation
> 1350 Jefferson Road, 801-10C
> Rochester, NY 14623
>
> XEROX
> Technology Document Management Consulting Services
>
> www.xerox.com
>
>
>
>> From: robertmstewart <robertmstewart@MAC.COM>
>> Reply-To: robertmstewart <robertmstewart@MAC.COM>
>> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:45:30 -0500
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Conversation: QT Video of New Microbus From Germany - Reply to Tim's
>> "imagination masturbation" statement
>> Subject: Re: QT Video of New Microbus From Germany - Reply to Tim's
>> "imagination masturbation" statement
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> Sorry but I could not let this one get away..
>>
>> ³It can't be built so it's a simple exercise in imagination masturbation. An
>> interesting design exercise? Hardly.²
>>
>> If all designers listened to the likes of automobile engineers with similar
>> dispositions regarding these ³imagination masturbation² exercises than
>> nothing of true design impact would ever be created. You would get square
>> box cars with, hard uncomfortable interiors, no curves, no innovation and
>> zero design sensibility.
>>
>> It is for this single reason alone they created industrial designers, to
>> this day it why they are responsible for bridging the gap between the
>> imagination of the creative mind, the functionality of purposeful and useful
>> design initiatives and the engineers that constantly tell them it can not be
>> done. The industrial designers job is see that it can be done within the
>> parameters the auto manufactures provide them, and in some cases they
>> succeed.
>>
>> I am sure the beloved Westy Campers were in a similar design exercise but
>> some great German minded engineers and industrial designers got together and
>> solved the problems to make the vehicle reality.
>>
>> Try to understand that it is the imagination of human beings that allow us
>> to see past our limitations, hence the key importance of why these
>> ³imagination masturbation² exercises are so important as they show us what
>> might be possible if we just put our minds to it.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rob
>> NYC/Long Beach, NY
>> 88 Wolfsburg, Silver
>>
>>
>>
>> on 3/3/06 12:42 PM, Aristotle Sagan at killer.jupiter@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> None the less. Many of us Engineer types look at fluff like this and say...
>>> So what? It can't be built so it's a simple exercise in imagination
>>> masturbation. An interesting design exercise? Hardly.
>>>
>>> tim in san jose
>>>
>>> On 3/2/06, robertmstewart <robertmstewart@mac.com> wrote:
>>>> Regardless of the lack of "common sense engineering" from the product
>>>> visualization animation what they propose in some cases in not far fetched,
>>>> with the right engineering, space allocations, and design refinements some
>>>> of the key ideas they show could be created. It is an interesting design
>>>> exercise to show you nothing more than the possibilities.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rob
>>>> NYC/Long Beach, NY
>>>> 88 Wolfsburg, Silver
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> The link shows a quick time video movie which describes the new
>>>>>>>> Vanagon/Microbus (what ever they are calling it).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It visually shows all the ideas they had at the time, camping system,
>>>>>>>> foldout walls, folding seats that become stairs to go the upper bunk,
>>>>>>>> creative storage and more. Check it out, worth the video download.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is actually a "design concept" by a french canadian group, I believe
>>>>> it
>>>>>> was their entry to a competition-- in 2004. VW had nothing to do with the
>>>>>> entry, though. Clearly it was conceived by a bunch of non-engineers. The
>>>>>> design is unworkable in the extreme. Everything from not having enough
>>>>> room
>>>>>> anywhere for an engine, transmission, and radiator (or batteries and
>>>>>> drive-motors, even); to "magic" tables, awnings, and pop top that seem to
>>>>>> unfold endlessly out of thin air, having extreme strength and taking up
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> volume when stowed; to a segmented windshield that'd never pass
>>>>>> visibility
>>>>>> regulations in ANY country; to a blunt front end that would likely be
>>>>>> aerodynamically WORSE than the Vanagon. No VW engineer would ever approve
>>>>>> such a fantasy, even as a simple marketing preview.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> John Bange
>>>>>> '90 Vanagon - "Geldsauger"
>>>
>>>
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