Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:07:41 -0900
Reply-To: Mark Tuovinen <mst@AK.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Mark Tuovinen <mst@AK.NET>
Subject: Re: Burnt Vanagon of the Week
In-Reply-To: <003e01c63f2a$0e600d30$6501a8c0@ibmt23laptopdef>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Doug,
I fully understand and agree with you on the challenges faced fighting engine fires, I have some experience with them
though thankfully not on my own vehicles. My comment was in response to the question of why you can't just kill the
ignition. Like yourself, without checking the manual I am not sure of the wiring routing for the fuel pump on a Vanagon.
For the fuel pump to run it does not matter where the power comes from, it just has to receive it. If, and it is a big if, the
power wire to the pump is bundled into a harness that has wires with power when the ignition is off and the harness
shorts in a fire, power may get to the pump regardless of the ignition switch position. I have seen engines in vehicles on
fire that start on their own from wiring shorting out. Is a Vanagon able to do this, I do not know, but until I find out for sure I
will consider it to be a possibility. For my piece of mind fire prevention/protection includes regular inspection of the fuel
lines, wiring, etc. I also carry several extinguishers, watch my mirrors while driving and am looking into the feasibility of
some of the ideas discussed on the list regarding this topic. I agree also that it would be interesting and beneficial to test
some of the barrier ideas, anyone out there have connections with their local fire departments?
Mark in AK
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug F <vanagon@ASTOUND.NET>
Date: Friday, March 3, 2006 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: Burnt Vanagon of the Week
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Ahhh, without looking it up, I think the power for the pump either
> comesfrom the ignition switch or comes from the ECU.
>
> In either case not sure you can "cross" any circuits in the engine
> compartment with a fire that will keep the pump running.
>
> If that is the case I would like to know which wires exactly are you
> referencing.
>
> The reason the fire is so difficult to fight is that fuel line
> leaks will
> spray the entire engine and engine compartment with fuel before the
> fireeven starts and then any and everything in the engine
> compartment is ablaze
> including the fiberglass engine lid.
>
> Once the fire breaks through the engine cover its no problem to set
> theENTIRE interior of the van on fire.
> Thats why an early vanagon metal engine cover can save the van all by
> itself.
>
> If I had a place to do it and a parted out vanagon to test I would
> love to
> test out various barriers in the back like a thin piece of sheet
> metal over
> the engine lid or nomex fabric blanket or both and see if the fire
> couldintrude into the interior.
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Tuovinen" <mst@AK.NET>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 4:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Burnt Vanagon of the Week
>
>
> > The fire melts the sheathing around the wire allowing current to
> crossover and reactivate the fuel pump and you have no control at
> this point.
> What they are talking about is a way to ground out the pump in case
> thishappens. What I would like to know is what will work for
> Syncro's as the
> fuel tank is above the transmission and I'd rather not have our van
> lookinglike the "Burnt Vanagon of the Week".
> >
> > Mark in AK
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Michael Diehr <md03@XOCHI.COM>
> > Date: Friday, March 3, 2006 3:17 pm
> > Subject: Re: Burnt Vanagon of the Week
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >
> > > What exactly happens when the engine catches fire, and why is
> it so
> > > hard to fight? Can't you just kill the ignition, which should
> kill> > the fuel pump, then put it out with an extinguisher? Or
> is there
> > > residual fuel pressure which keeps on spraying even after the
> power's> > off?
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mar 3, 2006, at 12:52 PM, John Brush wrote:
> > >
> > > > Still waiting for the more highly motivated and skilled among
> us to
> > > > come up
> > > > with a detector that would mount in the engine compartment,
> or on
> > > > underside
> > > > of the rear deck lid, that would monitor for flames, or an
> unusual> > > increase
> > > > in heat output.
> > > >
> > > > Obviously, the fuel needs to be cut off, and the occupants
> > > > notified as soon
> > > > as possible. By the time one sees the flames through the
> deck, or
> > > > out the
> > > > bottom, its probably too late.
> > > >
> > > > I know it could be done. Exactly how, is up for debate :-)
> > > >
> > > > John
> > >
>
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