Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (March 2006, week 1)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:50:42 -0600
Reply-To:     George Thorburn <thorgk@ACCESSCOMM.CA>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         George Thorburn <thorgk@ACCESSCOMM.CA>
Subject:      Re: Power loss with 15" wheels?
Comments: To: Philip Zimmerman <philzimm1@oberon.ark.com>,
          Loren Busch <starwagen@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=response

>>I know just the road. The Rattle Snake Grade... WA-OR border. Remember >>that grade George... on your way to Catherine Creek last year? Just the >>hill for coasting....

Phil, It's not coasting when you are turning sharp to the left or right or testing the brakes every 100 yards or less. We can wait at the top of the hill and sample some of the wine or Big Rock Traditional Ale you left beside the road. George

----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Zimmerman" <philzimm1@oberon.ark.com> To: "George Thorburn" <thorgk@accesscomm.ca>; "Loren Busch" <starwagen@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Power loss with 15" wheels?

George & Loren,

{That makes your tires roll 4% further per revolution than Lorens.}

Heck George, (the above) answers this dilemma without all the rocket-science, third-order calculus calculation and SWAG assertions that have been offered so far.... I roll 4% further ALL THE FRIGGEN TIME! Up hill, down hill, around the curves... everywhere. Yah hear that Loren? Gads, I have been travelling like 4% further than you whenever we have been travelling together and I use Canadian money too, that adds an additional 10%. Crap, 14% more in total.... I aint travelling with Starwagon no more... just costs me way too much in time, money, wear and tear on my poor overworked Westie. Gee... I'm gonna trash my big bad-boy tires an wheels and get me some little weenie "slammed" wheels and tires. Like some 10" rims from a Mini-Cooper and a set of wheelbarrow tires... wonder if wheelbarrow tires are available in 6 plies?? I am sure Lar Chase will chime in here and give me sh*t for running an unsafe under-rated tire/wheel combination ..... 8<)

{I also think Loren's van sits a little closer to the ground.}

For sure, he (Loren) suffers from acute acrophobia. Gotta keep him real close to the ground all the time (that's why he stargazes). It is rumored that he can't even sleep in the upper bunk.... well errr, both of us have removed or upper bunks though.... but this has more to do with our need to carry more stuff with us when we travel and that we are both just too damn lazy to climb-up-stairs to go to sleep. When yah sleep down-stairs all yah gotta do is "fall" into bed... no climbing whatsoever!

Ok, enough of my crazy-stupid sarcasm... now to the serious tire/wheel stuff!

Loren mentioned the weight issue of Starwagons bumpers and stuff inside. Perhaps but, I have a SA Frame Hitch inside that aluminum rear bumper. Weights a ton (overstatement) by itself. I wouldn't be surprised if our Vans didn't weigh-in within a few hundred pounds of each-other? Ok Loren, next time we travel together it's weigh-in time..... not you and me personally but our Vans!

A significant issue George mentions is the air-flow around the Van. My Canoe adds about an additional 56 sq.ft. of surface area to the Vans already dirty 440 sq.ft. This roughly equates to a 12% increase of surface area. I would expect the Canoe's shape to be more laminar-like than the Vans brick-like shape. But drag is drag... all adds up in the end. I vaguely recall the formula for drag/friction loss is at a cube-root rate? Where the more basic F=MA (coasting in a vacuum) is more of a 1 to 1 directly proportional thing. Without doing the rocket-science math thing (me too lazy... recalling, I sleep downstairs ALL the time), I suspect, the added drag I carry around with the Canoe exceeds the differences in the weights of our respective Vans?

Ok Loren, another testing problem we can do on our next road trip. Gravity coasting tests! Soap-Box Derby like. I can see the road already. At the top where we begin the coasting... there is all this stuff piled by the side of the road.... Canoe, bike, Bagawest, trailer hitches, extra batteries, cases of wine/gin..... Heh George, wanna get in on all this fun? I know just the road. The Rattle Snake Grade... WA-OR border. Remember that grade George... on your way to Catherine Creek last year? Just the hill for coasting....

later guys..... Phil ----------------------------

On Mar 5, 2006, at 07:53 AM, George Thorburn wrote:

>>I run 205:65X16 Nokan. 26.4" Dia. when new. So, a bit larger in diameter than stock. >>Why Starwagon out-coasts mine down hill? Loren is just allot "slicker".

Hey Phil,

I wonder if your bike rack and canoe rack would add much air resistance compared to Loren's van. I know you had a bike on the back of your van and canoe on the roof. (Check out the panorama picture from Catherine Creek that Loren posted last fall. www.pbase.com/labusch/oregon2005) When you are flying a box down a hill any little air flow advantages probably add up. George '85 Westfalia


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.