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Date:         Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:14:09 -0800
Reply-To:     Tom Sinclair <neeemo@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Tom Sinclair <neeemo@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Diesel  Conversions
In-Reply-To:  <4411B8E8.9070804@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I can't argue with anything Mark said here, but I will add MHO:

1: In small Richmond, UT which is down the road from me and is in the reddest of the red states (Bush still gets 60%+ approval there, can you imagine?) biodiesel has just become available. Maybe the "dream" is not unreasonable.

2. Recovering one's conversion costs in pure bottom line thinking is probably not possible. But getting rid of the waterboxer and Digifant is--as the commercial says--priceless.

3. I expect 200,000 miles from my Tdi, excellent reliability, 25 mpg (fingers crossed here) and bottomless amounts of effortless torque. Also Vanagons are the simplest cars I've ever worked on. Everything except the transaxle is DIY--and I plan to have a few of those around. Simple wiring, general durabilty and a parts van should make a long term ownership easier.

I will never get my money from the van, but the pleasure, security and feeling that I've reduced my imported oil use by 20%--I'll use B20--justify the investment. And I mean investment. I expect a serious return.

Ciao Tom

--- mark drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:

> You are missing the point of diesel conversions and > fuel cost savings. > The greater share of the interest in Vanagon diesel > conversions is > geared toward the goal of burning something other > than petro diesel. > Bio-diesel and waste veggie oil are the siren songs > for these engines > and have lead to the at least doubling of prices for > Vanagon diesel > models over the last couple years. The actual > likelihood of achieving > Vanagon petro-fuel independence is generally just a > dream IMHO, but lots > of us are dreamers. Some people do achieve it in > some measure but most > never do.With the costs of both gasoline and diesel > jumping around so > much just over a few months, projecting relative > fuel cost comparisons > many years into the future is a pretty shaky > proposition. Recovering any > real part of your conversion costs through fuel > savings with only gas > station purchased fuels is a big stretch unless you > do a lot more > driving than most. The diesel engine dream is one > where you get > alternative fuel for next to nothing and then > extrapolate that cost > structure across the entire vehicle and perhaps your > life in general. > > In the end, engine conversions of all types are > best left for those > committed to sustaining their Vanagon ownership for > a long time after > the conversion.Whether you do it yourself or pay > someone else, the > upfront costs are pretty high. The best way to > recover those costs is by > long term use of the vehicle after the conversion. > This implies a > sustained commitment to overall vehicle maintenance. > Even an engine > conversion that gives perfect results still leaves > you with a 15-25 year > old vehicle that likely has many other needs besides > engine work. Many > excessively frugal VW dieselheads don't seem to > grasp this. The results > are a proliferation of alternative fueled VW diesel > vehicle projects for > sale after the dream dies. > > Mark > > > > Pensioner wrote: > > >............... > > > >If fuel costs over time are the principal reason > for going to diesel (not > >fuel availability, or the desire to side with > Willie on the BioDiesel > >concert) then it makes sense to look at the fuel > savings one would enjoy > >over that 10000 miles per year. Diesel currently > costs about %10 more than > >87 Octane and is likely to stay that way. For > $2.50/gallon 87 octane let's > >say and vanagon average fuel efficiency of 17 miles > per gallon. The gallons > >per year is easily found to be ~588 gallons times > $2.50 gives $1470 per year > >fuel cost before conversion. If you go with > diesel the fuel consumption > >will probably be on the order of 25 miles per > gallon. For the same 10000 > >miles per year you'll pay $1100 in fuel costs > including the %10 higher price > >for diesel. You will get additional range between > fuel stops but you'll > >need it as not all fuel services feature diesel. > > > >In summary you'll save $370 per year in fuel costs > for 10000 miles per year. > >How many years to break even on the installation is > left as an excercise for > >the reader. > > > >Seems to be over ten years if your previously owned > motor lasts that long. > >FTSOE let's say it does. You will have saved $3700 > towards the motor > >replacement. > > > >The above example is to be considered a > conservative estimate process, your > >mileage, tolerance, costs, will no doubt be > different. > > > >"If a man professes knowledge but cannot express > that knowledge in numbers, > >then that knowledge is of a meagre and insufficient > kind" -- Lord Kelvin > > > >Numbers rule! > > > > > > > > >

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