Date:         Wed, 5 Apr 2006 00:07:27 -0400
Reply-To:     The Bus Depot <vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         The Bus Depot <vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ebay CV "kit"....is it any good?
In-Reply-To:  <ccafde090604041658x6c948c92h76f4ed15cb9a7b6b@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Someone already said it was made in Asia. Nobody asked you 
> or anyone else what country it was made in. YOU are insensitive
> to YOUR remark because you are NOT Chinese. ... Most of us
> have no trouble talking about Vanagons w/o resorting to such labels...
> No doubt such "expert" testimony will cause others to think that 
> anything made in China will typically be of poor quality.


This is nuts. Let me be very clear here, so we can put this to rest, because
Ben's reaction is simply inconsistent with my remarks.

1) Since when it simply calling something Chinese "resorting to a label"?
China is a country, not a derogatory term. Nothing I stated even remotely
implied otherwise. This implication came from Ben, not me.

2) It would indeed be prejudicial to assume that anything Asian is
automatically Chinese, but that isn't what happened.  My statement that the
Asian made CV joints were probably made in China was based on specific
knowledge of the industry, in that China is currently the largest Asian
supplier of these. See full text below.

3) It would be equally prejudicial to claim that everything made in China is
poor quality, but I didn't do that either. First of all, my comments
referred exclusively to auto parts, not "anything made in China" as Ben
expanded the subject to include.  And even within that context, I
specifically stated that I was not referring to all Chinese made auto parts.
I did explain that there was a risk, what it was, and why it was. Again, see
text below.

4)  The Bus Depot, since its inception, has been a strong contributor to
charities whose missions are to unite our world, not divide it - to
eradicate prejudice in the United States, and to provide worldwide
humanitarian aid based strictly on human need rather than race, religion,
nationality, or politics.  A percentage of every Bus Depot purchase goes
toward this goal, and has since our very first day in business. Not all
retailers can say that. See the following section of our website:

http://busdepot.com/help.jsp#DONATIONS

5)  I myself am partially of Asian descent (first generation American on one
side of the family), so it would be quite strange for me to be prejudiced
against Asians.  

I have copied my last post below, unedited. I think it is self explanatory,
and I do not believe that it reflects even the slightest bit of prejudice
whatsoever. If anyone has any doubt, please read it and judge for yourself.
It is unfortunate that some people are simply over-sensitive to racial
issues, and find racism where none exists. Sorry, Ben but you're barking up
the wrong tree. I don't doubt that your indignation is heartfelt, but it's
misplaced. This is my last comment on this subject on-list, as it has
diverged far from the subject of Vanagons.  

- Ron Salmon
  The Bus Depot, Inc.
  www.busdepot.com
  (215)  234-VWVW

_____________________________________________
Toll-Free for Orders by PART # :  1-866-BUS-DEPOT 



> Someone made the effort to try to keep the nation of origin
> of the parts in question as generic as possible. For someone 
> who has accused others of bigoted remarks, you appear to be 
> incredibly insensitive to those NOT in your ethnic group. 


You have completely misconstrued my remarks.

My guess that the product was probably Chinese made was based on
probabilities; most Asian made CV joints I've seen offered recently are from
China (Taiwan being second). If that is the case, I would also guess that
the Ebay seller's use of the term "Asian made" has nothing to do with
political correctness, but rather a reluctance for marketing reasons to call
them "Chinese made" (as Chinese made auto parts have a bit of a poor
reputation in the U.S.). That is the same reason why California Import Parts
uses German sounding brand names like "Bruck Germany," and descriptions like
"German quality" on their Chinese parts instead of calling them Chinese.

My comment that many of the Chinese made parts I've seen so far are of poor
quality (not all - there are certainly some well-made Chinese parts, just as
there are some crappy German ones) was based on firsthand experience.  As a
parts importer, I am always investigating the quality of various parts that
are offered to me, and increasingly many offers come from China. I have
found tremendous variations in quality, often from the same supplier
(indicating significant quality control issues). Some of the products were
decent, but many were not (and some were downright awful).  Moreover, my
experience is not unique; this issue is widely discussed within the
automotive aftermarket industry. Therefore (at least when it comes to
mechanical parts whose failure may render the van inoperable) I tend to
regard unknown Chinese suppliers with a healtty dose of skepticism. 

This issue has has absolutely nothing to do with race or ethnicity. Rather,
it probably has more to do with a general lack of experience on the part of
the Chinese auto parts industry as a whole. As recently as four years ago,
there were only only 8 models of cars widely available in China, and only 8
million cars in all of China (the most populous nation in the world),
compared to 180 million cars in the U.S. alone.  The most common mode of
transportation was (and remains) the bicycle.  The automotive parts export
industry didn't even exist. So this is not a country that has a lot of
experience making auto parts. Even under the best of circumstances, there is
a learning curve with any new industry.  It took the Japanese consumer
electronics industry a decade to become a quality leader, for example. Early
on most of Japan's electronic exports were low-end junk, but ten years later
some of the same manufacturers were making products that put their pricier
American competitors out of business. The same could be said about Korean
electronics (Samsung, Lucky-Goldstar) and automobiles (Hyundai).  Why should
the Chinese aftermarket auto parts industry be any different?

The Chinese aftermarket auto parts industry is currently in its infancy. I
have no doubt that over time it will mature. Eventually there will be a
shakeout and some real winners will emerge.  But that hasn't happened yet.
Meanwhile, that industry somewhat resembles our dot-com era here in the U.S.
before that shakeout occurred.  There are thousands of players, none of whom
has any track record at all, and most of whom probably won't survive because
they simply don't have a quality product.  Without a track record to look
at, it's hard to separate the good quality manufacturers from the bad.  So
yes, that makes them risky, and it has absolutely nothing to do with
bigotry. 

- Ron Salmon
  The Bus Depot, Inc.
  www.busdepot.com
  (215)  234-VWVW

_____________________________________________
Toll-Free for Orders by PART # :  1-866-BUS-DEPOT