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Date:         Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:29:50 -0700
Reply-To:     Evan Mac Donald <macdonald1987@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Evan Mac Donald <macdonald1987@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject:      Re: Engine replacement
In-Reply-To:  <6.2.1.2.2.20060420113505.055bb280@mail.bostig.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Thank you Jim, for that! And I have it on good authority that torque steer is generated from the different length AND difference in angles between the two half-shafts.

But all of the points about the entire GM drivetrain going in are moot, unless you wish to do some MAJOR suspension mods. The engine/trans combination is at least six inches wider than the spread between the inner pivots of the rear suspension. To clear the pivots, the engine/trans needs to be a long ways back. So far back, the axle angles are quite compromised. So, I will not be using the whole kit-and-caboodle, attractive though the idea is at first glance. I was going to do this first, and did a lot of measuring... ...sigh.

"Bostig Eng." <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM> wrote: Nonsense? No, just worded wrong. The gross torque steer we see in W bodies (both the SC'd GTPs for instance and the NA 3800s, will obviousy change in character once you make them non-steering wheels, and move them to the back... so you're right on that, however you are still going to be affected by the different length halfshafts unless you decide to install an LSD.. the 4t60e and 4t65es are way more apt to peg leg it than say, the stock VW open diff setup... as to the exact cause? Open diff+power+different length halfshafts. Why do you suppose the stock automatic don't have serious traction problems in one wheel when they take off? No power. But change the equation again, this time increasing the bias on the transaxle itself, keep it open, and add WAY more power and torque as you would be with the 3800, you are going to be very disappointed in finding that you'll spin up the short side way before you feel you should... of course this is speculation based on my experiance with those transaxles.

Bottom line, with any of the half dozen or so GTPs run by 3800 Series II supercharged 3.8s with the 4T65E that we've worked on(especially once they dump the eaton and go with a turbo), or the NA 3800 GPs with the 4T60E (which is likely the transaxle you'd be running) there are bias problems way worse than just about any other FWD setup I've worked on, except the saabs. As to whether or not it would have an effect on the vanagon once you install it, that's why I said it "could" be interesting. I'd say anything above 3/4 throttle from a stop and you'll have a one wheel smoke show, and if the engine is in really good shape, maybe you could even unsettle the van at low speeds. I say, you go ahead and do it, then bring it by for a test drive, and we can dyno the setup... and then I'll agree with you there isn't a problem if there isn't a problem. That's how we separate the "men from the boys" Joe. Unless of course in your experiance with W bodies you haven't run into the gross amounts of side to side biased output as we have, then I'd understand your contempt for my first reply to you. But get it finished first, and then let's see what you have. At worst you have a one wheel wonder, at best you have what you were hoping for.

Jim

At 11:28 AM 4/20/2006, -------------------- wrote: >Sorry but that's just non-sense. (This is why I love the >vanagon list....it really separates the men from the boys) > All automatic vanagon have different length haft shafts. >Moving it to the rear would make things less >complicated, as keeping the shafts and axles aligned >would eliminate any steering issues. > > Joe W. > > >Bostig Eng. wrote: > >>one big problem in using FWD setups for the RWD application will be >>the introduction of assymetrical halfshafts... RWD "torque steer" >>could be a very unsettling thing.. but it'd be fun to watch! :) >> >>At 10:44 PM 4/19/2006, -------------------- wrote: >> >>>Take the entire drive line. This was my second choice in engine swaps. >>>I was thinking of taking the entire tranaxle and engine from a GM 3.8L >>>and matting it at the half shafts. The vehicle weight is about the >>>same, >>>so it will be a great match. Parts are everywhere. Your biggest >>>problem >>>with this is cutting the rear seat area (maybe) to fit this arrangement. >>>When complete this will be the best setup going, except for gas milage. >>> joe. W. >>> >>> >>> >>>Evan Mac Donald wrote: >>> >>>>I need to replace the engine in my '84 (with a manual trans), and >>>>have a deal on an '88 Olds 3.8 from a FWD. It is an electronic >>>>engine, fuel injected and all. Has anybody that has done a "small" >>>>V-6 such as this got anything to say? My main worry is about this >>>>engines' life expectancy. It will be revving much higher than >>>>orginally designed, and for long stretches. I hope the trans should >>>>be able to take the loads, as it will be a highway / trip truck, not >>>>a daily driver. I know the conversion part will not be bolt-up, and >>>>am not worried about most of that. >>>> >> >> >

________________________________________ Bostig Engineering Engine Systems Voodoo http://www.bostig.com/ 617.272.3800 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Evan Mac Donald

1984 Wolfburg 1985 GL 7 Pass. 1991 Carat Weekender 1972 Chevy P/U 1993 Bonneville


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