Date:         Mon, 22 May 2006 10:07:01 -0700
Reply-To:     Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Seized Engine?
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

To do what is being discussed here (pre-screening posts) would require
either someone to hold, read and manually release all posts to the list,
which is a practical impossibility as it would be nearly a full-time job,
or, would require software filters that in my experience are by their very
nature clumsy and unpredictable and would result in a major disruption to
the list traffic. Can't see that either is an acceptable alternative
particularly since they both involve some individual's mostly subjective
judgment being expressed as a kind of 'prior restraint', which in any case
is a much worse alternative than having the occasional offensive misfire
posted to the list.

What happened here was a very good example of 'bad speech' being met by
'better speech', which is the way it's supposed to work in a society that
embraces free expression. I'd guess that the poster got the point and will
consider his posts more carefully in the future. If not, the normal pattern
for the moderator as it appears to me in my time on the list is to warn the
offender the first time, manually hold the offender's posts and
read-and-release them or not (mostly not) at his convenience after the
second offense and to boot the offender after the third offense. While this
doesn't result in a constant warm-and-touchy-feely glow on the list it does
work fairly well, as the list is fairly peaceful these days and these
incidents are very much the exception rather than the norm. The long-timers
can attest to the unbridled rancor that was threatening to overwhelm the
list that was very evident even a few years ago when I first joined. In the
normal back-and-forth of human interaction there will always be somebody
losing control of their inner bonehead and spewing some garbage that all
righteous folks will rise up against and for which they will vehemently
declare their offense and disgust, and then the matter will be dealt with
and things will return to normal and everyone will go back to their
business, and so it is here. Most of us try to behave as reasonable adults
even if we sometimes fail; I think the current system is working fairly well
and is far preferable to having some full-time censor clamping down on us
even as we sit before the keyboard.

The idea that the moderator has a 'policy of tacit approval' for every mouth
that roars is way off the beam IMO. The idea just makes no rational sense.
Even the laws governing near real-time publishing on the Internet such as
this list absolve the 'publisher' for the content, for the reasons above,
and others. Nobody else is responsible for my speech and I don't want them
to be, because then they have authority over it. Nor is it right to hold
someone responsible for another's speech, particularly under these
conditions.

Cya,
Robert


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joy Hecht" <jhecht@ALUM.MIT.EDU>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Seized Engine?


> :::-----Original Message-----
> :::From: David Gunning [mailto:davidgunning@pivot.net]
> :::Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 8:03 PM
> :::To: Joy Hecht
> :::Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
> :::Subject: Re: Re: Seized Engine?
> :::
> :::
> :::Joy,
> :::
> :::Your comments make perfect sense to me.  The list moderator ought to
> take
> :::measures to see to it that there is no place on the list for such
> :::misplaced
> :::misogynist sentiments to be published, in the first place.  Anything
> less
> :::on
> :::the part of the list moderator amounts to a policy of tacit approval
> for
> :::the
> :::original insulting comments, in the first place, from my view.
> :::
>
> Well, the moderator of this list seems to see his role as screening for a
> few specific words deemed offensive, but not for the possibly much more
> offensive or destructive content of the views expressed.  But that's been
> an
> ongoing issue as long as I've been on the list.
>
>
>
> Joy
>
>
> :::The list and it's members, of which you are one, certainly deserve
> better
> :::than that.
> :::
> :::Dave
> :::
> :::davidgunning@pivot.net