Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:08:26 -0600
Reply-To: Richard A Jones <jones@COLORADO.EDU>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Richard A Jones <jones@COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: LP tank refurb
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> The tank is quite rusty; one or two tack welds on the
> ID plate have come loose. An indicator that a new tank
> needed. Or so I was told.
>
> Since I'm a bit of a Cheap-A**, can a rusty LP tank
> (dep. on cond.) be cleaned, checked, repainted and
> used safely? Or is this risky? i.e. it could soon leak
> where rust made metal too thin, leak at the threads
> and/or a part could pop off due to LP pressure and
> mega rust. (please forgive my ignorance on that last
> idea!)
>
> My gut says "new tank + valves/reg", as I don't want
> to wait for a leak to occur. But if I can *safely*
> save some bucks, then all the better.
Neil:
The LP tank installed on Westies is very durable and
strong. It is a horizontal tank design certified by
ASME rather than a vertical tank certified by DOT. It
is the DOT tanks that have to be newer and have an
overfill device installed.
I have two tanks on my Westy. Both have new fill/bleed
valves and new shutoff/regulators. One has been spiffed
up and painted and the other is original. The spiffed
does not have the label; I'm not sure about the other. I
have never had a propane boy question filling either.
You'll get opinions on LP tanks that border on religion,
just like tires and engine transplants. My take is that
a direct Iranian nuclear hit would probably take the
fill and shutoff valves off, but the tank would not be
damaged.... ;-)
So I suggest that you clean up and repaint your tank and
install new fill and shutoff valves as needed and just go
camping.
Here is info on a second tank and what I did:
> Subject: Second propane tank setup
> Date: 8/5/01 11:25:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> From: jones@COLORADO.EDU (Richard A. Jones)
> Sender: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com (Vanagon Mailing List)
> Reply-to: jones@colorado.edu (Richard A. Jones)
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>
> Steve:
>
> I added a second propane tank to my '87 Syncro Westy this June. I had a second tank
> (from Chris [JordanVW]) that was complete with regulator, brass T fitting, etc. Even the
> "skid plate!" (Thanks, Chris!)
>
> On my Westy, under the sliding door, the two rear studs for a propane tank were there.
> Instead of the two front studs, there were two nuts, which upon closer inspection were
> the plastic nuts on plastic bolts from the top--the "dummy" bolts for seat belts on a
> center seat. They were in exactly the correct position for the propane tank. Go figure.
>
> I removed the plate in the sliding door opening, the floor screws but not the cabinets.
> I could then bend up the camper floor just enough to have 1 or 1-1/2 inches clearance
> over those plastic bolts--enough to remove them and put in some real metal ones. I bent
> the floor up only from the r-f corner--closest to the passenger seat. I don't think it
> would have flexed any higher, but this was just enough. I put nuts on the bottom of
> bolts and then put the floor back down. This turned out to be pretty easy.
>
> Now I had the four studs to hold the propane tank. The two front ones had nuts up
> against the bottom of the metal floor and the back ones didn't, but I ignored this--the
> difference is so small.
>
> I bought new fill/bleed valves and a new regulator, painted the tank and plate with a
> "propane tank" spray paint and then installed it. The new regulator with its snap-on
> plastic cover is easy to put on if the plate is removed. With the plate, I think you
> have to break off some of the plastic cover so that it will turn 360 degrees screwing
> it in.
>
> I used the brass T fitting from the old regulator. On one side I put a cap--future
> expansion to the Carver heater. The other side connects to the line to the other tank.
>
> On the old tank side, I bought a union and a T fitting. On the lower propane pipe, I
> put in the union and the T, then reconnected the pipe. It wasn't hard to carefully bend
> it around to work. When I have to put a new regulator there, which is longer, it will
> probably be some harder work.... But I have a flare tool, so I can shorten the line
> and re-flare it.
>
> I ran a copper line between the new tank and the T on the old tank. My route was along
> a cross member that is between the tanks and has a nice flange stamped on it. The line
> is bent to "hide" in the corner of this flange. It passes over my Syncro drivetrain.
> I put a flare fitting at each end. Upon connecting everything, I could test everything
> but the new fill/bleeder valves in the new tank since there was propane in the old one.
> Soapy water showed me where to crank some flare fittings tighter and then--no more leaking.
>
> When I went to fill the new tank, I told the guy what I had done so he put just a little
> propane in the new tank, then we went over the fill/bleeder valve--and everything
> else--with soapy water. No leaks, so he filled it up, then filled the old tank,
> commenting that the autostop valve was not working very well. When that tank is empty,
> I'll put new filler/bleeder valves on it.
>
> I did not put any shutoff valves in the line, so now I have quite a bit of propane "after"
> the regulators. So when I shut off both tanks, the fridge will run quite a while; it
> takes several minutes to burn it off on the stove. I don't see this as a problem, but
> some might want a shutoff at each end of the connecting line.
>
> My mode of operation: Run on one tank, with the other full but shut off. When one
> tank is dry, shut if off, open the other, relight the frig and continue. Fill the
> empty tank when convenient in the next few days, and repeat.
>
> This was all triggered because we ran dry in Utah on our trip in May
> http://jones.colorado.edu/jones/Utah01
> and just barely got a refill in Mexican Hat at 4:59pm on a red-hot day by someone
> who had never seen an autostop valve--and didn't care! . Won't have that problem again!
>
> I haven't taken any photos of the setup, but it is pretty straightforward--after all,
> I could do it. ;-) If you have questions, just ask.
>
> Richard A. Jones
> Boulder, Colorado
> '81 Vanagon Mr Bus
> '87 Syncro Westy El Jefe
And here is info on ASME certified tanks and why they don't need
to be replaced like DOT ones:
> 20 March 2006; Vanagon list
> I found the following helpful and relevant info on the National
> Propane Gas Association Website:
> http://www.npga.org/files/public/Consumers_Questions.pdf)
>
>> > The 2001 edition of NFPA 58 (the LP-Gas Code) recognizes that
>> > horizontally
>> > oriented cylinders that were manufactured prior to October 1, 1998,
>> > are unable to
>> > be retrofitted with the OPD's. As a result of this fact, the Code
>> > now exempts these
>> > cylinders from having to be retrofit with OPD valves. Any such
>> > cylinder must have
>> > a label affixed to it to inform the user and the refiller that an
>> > OPD valve is not
>> > installed. (Note: This provision was not contained in the 1998
>> > edition of NFPA 58.)
>
> Maybe you should contact them for some pamphlets you can share with
> your friendly local propane vendor.
> http://www.npga.org
>
>
> Happy trails,
>
> Greg Potts
> Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Here is the regulator:
http://tinyurl.com/jry7r
The fill valve needed is NOT OPD, since that is the issue,
so you'll have to have a local RV shop get it, along with
the little bleeder valve. The shutoff valve, too, which is
POL. See:
http://tinyurl.com/fz5bx
Note that our Westy tanks have a fill valve (and bleeder--or
the infamous AutoStop) AND a shutoff valve with the regulator.
DOT tanks have a single fill/shutoff valve and the regulator
is screwed onto that for use.
If you have questions, just ask.
Richard A Jones
Boulder, Colorado
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