Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 21:35:50 -0400
Reply-To: robert shawn feller <carboncow@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: robert shawn feller <carboncow@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: conflicting cooling problem data...(this one is for the true
experts...)
In-Reply-To: <cf4df96f0606241645m57fe7f05uf8118c6ec6f4f36c@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
for those following my search for correct ohm readings at a given temp for
the Coolant Temp Sender...I have not finished my question yet, but I did get
up this piece of info I bugged the Bentley people for last fall. Not very
specific but it shows that Ken's numbers are accurate readings and the chart
I had originally was for the temp2 sensor, which has different readings. see
pdf here I posted on my site:
http://carboncow.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?cid=3&lid=4
My quest continues for more specific readings over the full range. Since I
was told this a standard VDO sender range (although it may be a bosch
sender) therefor the range has to be published somewhere!
Shawn
On 6/24/06, robert shawn feller <carboncow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> dan,
>
> i think you must have a 1.9 then as my water temp sender is two wires
> coming from the housing (2.1L), i don't ground tot he housing and have
> checked my ground wire. as you state that would give me a low reading and
> not high which is my problem.
>
> ken just said he tested both the water sender and the temp2 side by side
> with different readings/curves...i don't see how there can be 1000ohm
> difference as he states...mine are almost identical in readings at any time.
>
>
> Shawn
>
>
> On 6/24/06, Daniel Katz <katzd54@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > robert:
> >
> > what i am calling temp i is one wire temp gauge
> > sending unit, grounded via threads. temp ii is two
> > wire sensor for ecu. common set-up, not peculaliar to
> > german cars. temp verses resistance characteristics
> > are close for i and ii - many k ohm cold, 100's of
> > ohms operating temp. poorly bonded thermostat housing
> > (i.e., poor ground) will not effect temp ii, but will
> > make temp gauge read low as current from temp i has to
> > flow through high resistance to ground.
> >
> > dan
> >
> > --- robert shawn feller <carboncow@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Dan,
> > >
> > > Do you have confirmation or a chart that the temp2
> > > sensor has the same ohm
> > > readings for a given temp. If so why wouldn't the
> > > design allow the ECU and
> > > the Temp Gauge to work off the same sender (rather
> > > rudant don't you think)
> > > or why wouldn't they make the parts interchangable
> > > then in the housing? (i'm
> > > trying rationalize german over engineering! this is
> > > the same company that
> > > puts two pressure sensors on the master cylinder for
> > > the brake lights!)
> > >
> > > Can I simply share the connections on the temp2
> > > sensor as I recall the van
> > > doesn't run so great with the temp2 disconnected, or
> > > maybe it just doesn't
> > > like to start.
> > >
> > > I'll start with this idea.
> > >
> > > Shawn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/24/06, Daniel L. Katz <katzd54@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > obviously a bad temp i sending unit.
> > > >
> > > > could prove this by heating in water on the stove
> > > and monitoring both
> > > > sensor resistance and water temp.
> > > >
> > > > other confirmation would be to test temp ii
> > > sensor, which has similar
> > > > specified temperature-resistance characteristics.
> > > >
> > > > dan
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:40:29 -0400, robert shawn
> > > feller
> > > > <carboncow@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >I've just about had it trying to figure out why
> > > my gauge/LED tell me I'm
> > > > >running very warm and often "hot" when I'm
> > > stopped.
> > > > >
> > > > >I've got conflicting troubleshooting info
> > > everywhere, here is the
> > > > process:
> > > > >
> > > > >this spring my temp gauge was running very low.
> > > Tests showed a faulty
> > > > temp1
> > > > >sender unit. I got a new unit from van-cafe.com
> > > along with a new stock
> > > > >thermostat. Instantly my gauge was now showing
> > > high with intermittent LED
> > > > >activity (not due to the level). I doubted the
> > > gauge so I pulled out my
> > > > 3M
> > > > >Non Contact Thermometer and it shows EVERYTHING
> > > seams fine, block and
> > > > >coolant hoses are all below 196F. I double
> > > checked my fan and its working
> > > > >all speeds. van-cafe.com was nice enough to send
> > > me another sender unit
> > > > >although they doubted there was a failure in the
> > > sender. I replaced the
> > > > >sender along with another thermostat and guess
> > > what, still running hot. I
> > > > >owed them $12!
> > > > >
> > > > >Before I replace the radiator and fan thermal
> > > switch as many have
> > > > >recommended I wanted to check a few things. R.
> > > Mathiew sent me a OHM
> > > > chart
> > > > >showing the resistance at all temps. Now I see a
> > > problem unless his chart
> > > > is
> > > > >wrong.
> > > > >With a COLD engine the OHM reading should be
> > > 1500-2000 according to his
> > > > >chart, but my reading on my FLUKE multitester
> > > shows 800OHM, this was
> > > > >confirmed with a less professional unit. As the
> > > engine warms the chart
> > > > also
> > > > >shows that the "high" temps should be between
> > > 160-220OHM at 212F. All
> > > > >readings on the multitester came way to early, I
> > > was still able to touch
> > > > >hoses when the reading on the ohms said my hand
> > > should be burnt. Took the
> > > > >van around the block and its been idling for 30
> > > minutes and the reading
> > > > is
> > > > >currently 62.4 OHM which should have my engine
> > > block melting. My 3M tells
> > > > me
> > > > >the hottest pipe from the water pump to the
> > > thermostat housing is only
> > > > 196F
> > > > >and hottest spot I can find on the engine block
> > > is 192F. The fan has yet
> > > > to
> > > > >cycle today as it is 82F in Ohio but it has
> > > cycled before in hotter
> > > > weather.
> > > > >I'm quite sure that thermoswitch is working fine.
> > > > >
> > > > >I built a resistance box to test the dash guage
> > > and it works 100% OK. The
> > > > >gauge shows the proper locations for a given
> > > resistance. I have not
> > > > checked
> > > > >voltage at the gauge but if my resistance box
> > > shows proper numbers I
> > > > should
> > > > >be OK. Additionally my mutitester readings are
> > > showing the same "high"
> > > > >readings from the sender unit. So here are my
> > > questions:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - Does anyone think I've got to bad sender
> > > unit, again? (bad
> > > > > batch/run?)
> > > > > - Could the OHM readings given to me be
> > > incorrect? (I'll display them
> > > > > below)
> > > > > - What else can I do before I spend (as some
> > > recommend) $200 on a
> > > > > radiator and fan thermswitch, which doesn't
> > > make sense to me at this
> > > > time.
> > > > > There has been much talk about radiator flow
> > > restriction.
> > > > > - Would you not agree that the metal pipe from
> > > the water pump to
> > > > > thermostat housing is the hottest water
> > > reading for an thermo-gun and
> > > > 196F
> > > > > is acceptable?
> > > > > - Get a sender from another vendor? (that
> > > would make three!)
> > > > >
> > > > >I know many have stated to check wiring but and
> > > increase in resistance
> > > > from
> > > > >old wiring or bad ground would show a low reading
> > > as when my first sender
> > > > >failed.
> > > > >
> > > > >I was told this sender is a standard VDO ohm
> > > range so can someone check
> > > > >these temp to ohm numbers below. I cannot find
> > > data in Bentley or other
> > > > >sources.
> > > > >
> > > > >Lastly I pulled the Coolant Level Warning sender
> > > last weekend and I
> > > > forget
> > > > >where it goes in the relay/fuse box. Top row far
> > > right?
> > > > >
> > > > >Temperature sensor resistance
> > > > >
> > > > >F (C) Ohms
> > > > >50 10 3100-4100
> > > > >68 20 2000-3000
> > > > >86 30 1500-2000
> > > > >104 40 1000-1500
> > > > >122 50 750- 950
> > > > >140 60 540- 650
> > > > >158 70 380- 480
> > > > >176 80 290- 360
> > > > >194 90 205- 280
> > > > >212 100 160- 220
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >shawn feller, ohio
> > > > >1986 vw vanagon gl westfalia
> > > > >1993 vw eurovan gl
> > > > >plus a couple of saabs, boats, jet skis, dog and
> > > wife (all require to
> > > > much
> > > > >maintenance, accept the dog)...
> > > > >
> > > > > www.carboncow.com
> > > > >www.carboncow.net
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > === message truncated ===
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> shawn feller, ohio
> 1986 vw vanagon gl westfalia
> 1993 vw eurovan gl
> plus a couple of saabs, boats, jet skis, dog and wife (all require to much
> maintenance, accept the dog)...
>
> www.carboncow.com
> www.carboncow.net
>
--
shawn feller, ohio
1986 vw vanagon gl westfalia
1993 vw eurovan gl
plus a couple of saabs, boats, jet skis, dog and wife (all require to much
maintenance, accept the dog)...
www.carboncow.com
www.carboncow.net
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