Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 19:45:13 -0400
Reply-To: robert shawn feller <carboncow@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: robert shawn feller <carboncow@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: conflicting cooling problem data...(this one is for the true
experts...)
In-Reply-To: <20060624233957.33515.qmail@web53004.mail.yahoo.com>
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dan,
i think you must have a 1.9 then as my water temp sender is two wires coming
from the housing (2.1L), i don't ground tot he housing and have checked my
ground wire. as you state that would give me a low reading and not high
which is my problem.
ken just said he tested both the water sender and the temp2 side by side
with different readings/curves...i don't see how there can be 1000ohm
difference as he states...mine are almost identical in readings at any time.
Shawn
On 6/24/06, Daniel Katz <katzd54@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> robert:
>
> what i am calling temp i is one wire temp gauge
> sending unit, grounded via threads. temp ii is two
> wire sensor for ecu. common set-up, not peculaliar to
> german cars. temp verses resistance characteristics
> are close for i and ii - many k ohm cold, 100's of
> ohms operating temp. poorly bonded thermostat housing
> (i.e., poor ground) will not effect temp ii, but will
> make temp gauge read low as current from temp i has to
> flow through high resistance to ground.
>
> dan
>
> --- robert shawn feller <carboncow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dan,
> >
> > Do you have confirmation or a chart that the temp2
> > sensor has the same ohm
> > readings for a given temp. If so why wouldn't the
> > design allow the ECU and
> > the Temp Gauge to work off the same sender (rather
> > rudant don't you think)
> > or why wouldn't they make the parts interchangable
> > then in the housing? (i'm
> > trying rationalize german over engineering! this is
> > the same company that
> > puts two pressure sensors on the master cylinder for
> > the brake lights!)
> >
> > Can I simply share the connections on the temp2
> > sensor as I recall the van
> > doesn't run so great with the temp2 disconnected, or
> > maybe it just doesn't
> > like to start.
> >
> > I'll start with this idea.
> >
> > Shawn
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/24/06, Daniel L. Katz <katzd54@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > obviously a bad temp i sending unit.
> > >
> > > could prove this by heating in water on the stove
> > and monitoring both
> > > sensor resistance and water temp.
> > >
> > > other confirmation would be to test temp ii
> > sensor, which has similar
> > > specified temperature-resistance characteristics.
> > >
> > > dan
> > >
> > > On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:40:29 -0400, robert shawn
> > feller
> > > <carboncow@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > >
> > > >I've just about had it trying to figure out why
> > my gauge/LED tell me I'm
> > > >running very warm and often "hot" when I'm
> > stopped.
> > > >
> > > >I've got conflicting troubleshooting info
> > everywhere, here is the
> > > process:
> > > >
> > > >this spring my temp gauge was running very low.
> > Tests showed a faulty
> > > temp1
> > > >sender unit. I got a new unit from van-cafe.com
> > along with a new stock
> > > >thermostat. Instantly my gauge was now showing
> > high with intermittent LED
> > > >activity (not due to the level). I doubted the
> > gauge so I pulled out my
> > > 3M
> > > >Non Contact Thermometer and it shows EVERYTHING
> > seams fine, block and
> > > >coolant hoses are all below 196F. I double
> > checked my fan and its working
> > > >all speeds. van-cafe.com was nice enough to send
> > me another sender unit
> > > >although they doubted there was a failure in the
> > sender. I replaced the
> > > >sender along with another thermostat and guess
> > what, still running hot. I
> > > >owed them $12!
> > > >
> > > >Before I replace the radiator and fan thermal
> > switch as many have
> > > >recommended I wanted to check a few things. R.
> > Mathiew sent me a OHM
> > > chart
> > > >showing the resistance at all temps. Now I see a
> > problem unless his chart
> > > is
> > > >wrong.
> > > >With a COLD engine the OHM reading should be
> > 1500-2000 according to his
> > > >chart, but my reading on my FLUKE multitester
> > shows 800OHM, this was
> > > >confirmed with a less professional unit. As the
> > engine warms the chart
> > > also
> > > >shows that the "high" temps should be between
> > 160-220OHM at 212F. All
> > > >readings on the multitester came way to early, I
> > was still able to touch
> > > >hoses when the reading on the ohms said my hand
> > should be burnt. Took the
> > > >van around the block and its been idling for 30
> > minutes and the reading
> > > is
> > > >currently 62.4 OHM which should have my engine
> > block melting. My 3M tells
> > > me
> > > >the hottest pipe from the water pump to the
> > thermostat housing is only
> > > 196F
> > > >and hottest spot I can find on the engine block
> > is 192F. The fan has yet
> > > to
> > > >cycle today as it is 82F in Ohio but it has
> > cycled before in hotter
> > > weather.
> > > >I'm quite sure that thermoswitch is working fine.
> > > >
> > > >I built a resistance box to test the dash guage
> > and it works 100% OK. The
> > > >gauge shows the proper locations for a given
> > resistance. I have not
> > > checked
> > > >voltage at the gauge but if my resistance box
> > shows proper numbers I
> > > should
> > > >be OK. Additionally my mutitester readings are
> > showing the same "high"
> > > >readings from the sender unit. So here are my
> > questions:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Does anyone think I've got to bad sender
> > unit, again? (bad
> > > > batch/run?)
> > > > - Could the OHM readings given to me be
> > incorrect? (I'll display them
> > > > below)
> > > > - What else can I do before I spend (as some
> > recommend) $200 on a
> > > > radiator and fan thermswitch, which doesn't
> > make sense to me at this
> > > time.
> > > > There has been much talk about radiator flow
> > restriction.
> > > > - Would you not agree that the metal pipe from
> > the water pump to
> > > > thermostat housing is the hottest water
> > reading for an thermo-gun and
> > > 196F
> > > > is acceptable?
> > > > - Get a sender from another vendor? (that
> > would make three!)
> > > >
> > > >I know many have stated to check wiring but and
> > increase in resistance
> > > from
> > > >old wiring or bad ground would show a low reading
> > as when my first sender
> > > >failed.
> > > >
> > > >I was told this sender is a standard VDO ohm
> > range so can someone check
> > > >these temp to ohm numbers below. I cannot find
> > data in Bentley or other
> > > >sources.
> > > >
> > > >Lastly I pulled the Coolant Level Warning sender
> > last weekend and I
> > > forget
> > > >where it goes in the relay/fuse box. Top row far
> > right?
> > > >
> > > >Temperature sensor resistance
> > > >
> > > >F (C) Ohms
> > > >50 10 3100-4100
> > > >68 20 2000-3000
> > > >86 30 1500-2000
> > > >104 40 1000-1500
> > > >122 50 750- 950
> > > >140 60 540- 650
> > > >158 70 380- 480
> > > >176 80 290- 360
> > > >194 90 205- 280
> > > >212 100 160- 220
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Thanks.
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >shawn feller, ohio
> > > >1986 vw vanagon gl westfalia
> > > >1993 vw eurovan gl
> > > >plus a couple of saabs, boats, jet skis, dog and
> > wife (all require to
> > > much
> > > >maintenance, accept the dog)...
> > > >
> > > >www.carboncow.com
> > > >www.carboncow.net
> > >
> >
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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--
shawn feller, ohio
1986 vw vanagon gl westfalia
1993 vw eurovan gl
plus a couple of saabs, boats, jet skis, dog and wife (all require to much
maintenance, accept the dog)...
www.carboncow.com
www.carboncow.net
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