Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:15:24 -0700
Reply-To: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM>
Subject: Re: freeze 12
In-Reply-To: <022601c69ede$7c0f8cc0$647ba8c0@MAIN>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Robert,
Please email me a link for that patent info on R12. I've been told the
patent story by several AC gurus but have never got an actual date.
However, regardless of when the patent ran out on R-12, it doesn't really
change the fact that the large corporations lobbied the EPA into an inferior
refrigerant just so they could control the substance (and make mo' money),
whilst shooting down a superior HC based alternative which is much, much
more environment friendly (and cheaper).
Why is it people hide behind "it's just another conspiracy theory" instead
of investigating the possibilities? Reminds me of the current government of
some large country. Hmmm...
Cheers,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
Of Robert Fisher
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 1:23 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: freeze 12
The patent on R-12 expired in the 50's. So what's the current conspiracy
theorists' rant on why they waited 40 years to get in a flap about replacing
it?
Cya,
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Schwaia" <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: freeze 12
> John,
>
> Well said. The simple fact is that we are stuck with R134a because the
> large corporations that lobby the EPA were able to get R12 off the market
> when their patent ran out. And guess what they had for a replacement... a
> newly patented product called R134a.
>
> Hydrocarbon (HC) based refrigerants are widely used worldwide without
> issue.
> Our EPA loves to stand on it's soap box and talk about the environmental
> benefits of R134 over R12, and they're right, R12 takes 130 years to
> dissipate, whilst R134a is gone in 16. What they don't tell you is that
> HC
> based refrigerants dissipate in less than 1 year, hmmm...
>
> Here in the USA, we always follow the golden rule: "Those with the gold,
> make the rules"
>
> Okay, I'm stepping down off of my soap box now.
>
> Happy 4th,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
> Of John Bange
> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:10 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: freeze 12
>
>
>>
>> Now the thing about Freeze 12 is it is PROPANE based. A news station
>> back home once serviced a car with freeze 12 and made a small leak in
>> the evaporator. They ran the car for 30 minutes or so all closed up and
>> had a mannequin inside with a cig and lighter. When the made the lighter
>> ignite the whole interior became a fire bomb and exploded.
>>
>> Just something to think about. I smoke so no freeze 12 for me
>
>
> Typical local news ratings-grab stunt. All hydrocarbon refrigerants are
> odorized, just like the LPG in your barbecue tank and the NG in your home
> gas lines, for that very reason. There's no way you could STAND to be in
> the
> car until an explosive fuel air ratio was reached. You could just as
> easily
> blow yourself up leaving the stove on in a westy. Propane there too, a lot
> more than 18oz of it, and it's contained in a system DESIGNED to vent
> freely
> into the interior-- no need for a production assistant to puncture
> anything.
> Every refrigerator sold in Germany uses hydrocarbon refrigerant. Like
> anywhere else, safety with HC chillers is a matter of maintenance and
> caution. Sure, it has the potential to be a greater fire hazard than
> R134a,
> but so does gasoline over diesel. Life's a series of calculated risks.
>
>
>
>
> --
> John Bange
> '90 Vanagon - "Geldsauger"
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