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Date:         Mon, 3 Jul 2006 13:23:02 -0700
Reply-To:     Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Subject:      Re: freeze 12
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

The patent on R-12 expired in the 50's. So what's the current conspiracy theorists' rant on why they waited 40 years to get in a flap about replacing it?

Cya, Robert

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Schwaia" <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 11:42 AM Subject: Re: freeze 12

> John, > > Well said. The simple fact is that we are stuck with R134a because the > large corporations that lobby the EPA were able to get R12 off the market > when their patent ran out. And guess what they had for a replacement... a > newly patented product called R134a. > > Hydrocarbon (HC) based refrigerants are widely used worldwide without > issue. > Our EPA loves to stand on it's soap box and talk about the environmental > benefits of R134 over R12, and they're right, R12 takes 130 years to > dissipate, whilst R134a is gone in 16. What they don't tell you is that > HC > based refrigerants dissipate in less than 1 year, hmmm... > > Here in the USA, we always follow the golden rule: "Those with the gold, > make the rules" > > Okay, I'm stepping down off of my soap box now. > > Happy 4th, > > Jeff > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf > Of John Bange > Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:10 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Re: freeze 12 > > >> >> Now the thing about Freeze 12 is it is PROPANE based. A news station >> back home once serviced a car with freeze 12 and made a small leak in >> the evaporator. They ran the car for 30 minutes or so all closed up and >> had a mannequin inside with a cig and lighter. When the made the lighter >> ignite the whole interior became a fire bomb and exploded. >> >> Just something to think about. I smoke so no freeze 12 for me > > > Typical local news ratings-grab stunt. All hydrocarbon refrigerants are > odorized, just like the LPG in your barbecue tank and the NG in your home > gas lines, for that very reason. There's no way you could STAND to be in > the > car until an explosive fuel air ratio was reached. You could just as > easily > blow yourself up leaving the stove on in a westy. Propane there too, a lot > more than 18oz of it, and it's contained in a system DESIGNED to vent > freely > into the interior-- no need for a production assistant to puncture > anything. > Every refrigerator sold in Germany uses hydrocarbon refrigerant. Like > anywhere else, safety with HC chillers is a matter of maintenance and > caution. Sure, it has the potential to be a greater fire hazard than > R134a, > but so does gasoline over diesel. Life's a series of calculated risks. > > > > > -- > John Bange > '90 Vanagon - "Geldsauger"


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