Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 19:44:01 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Blinking coolant level light
In-Reply-To: <bfb5ccc40609041322u639320ebw82c68103fa5ae51f@mail.gmail.com>
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The Kia's and Hyundai's have become great vehicles. Fuel economy in general
is not as good as other makes of equal sized cars but you can buy a lot of
fuel for the difference in price. I think it mostly has to do with engine
design and state of tune. My '88 fox barley gets out 30 mpg and it only has
40K on it. The previous owner only used it ~1,000 miles a year. I bought it
at 14K. Anyway, my wife used to have an Audi 100s with the V6 that would get
26-27 around town and 30 + on the highway.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Old Volks Home
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:23 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Blinking coolant level light
On the subject of Kias, I happen to have bought one new just over two years
ago. A 2004 1/2 Spectra EX. An absolute JOY to own. A vehicle I would
have bought from VW if they would only make something that equivalent in
China, Korea or even Mexico. The only complaint I have is that the mileage
isn't what I was hoping for though. My 89 Honda Accord I traded in for it
got an average 35mpg on my trips from LA to Phoenix (and that's with over
250K on the odo!). I can barely squeeze 31mpg from the Spectra. Same size
engine and weight as the Accord. Perhaps the gearing between the two
Automatics are different enough for the disparity in mileage.
Dealer maintenance has been exemplary, with knowledgeable and helpful
people, pricing not all that bad either, not unlike those found at
Volkswagen a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away........
Hard to beat the 10 year/100k warranty either.
With this kind of quality my next car could very well be their Sedona
Minivan.
Oboy, I can hear the howling, the gnashing of teeth, the masses
of Vanagonauts coming at me with chains rattling, sabres being sharpened,
smell torches being lit, the bubbling of oily tar being prepared and the
sqawking of helpless chickens and ducks having their feathers being plucked
as in days of yore...........;-)
--
Jim Thompson
84 Westfalia 2.1 "Ole Putt"
73 K Ghia Coupe "Denise"
72 411 Station Wagon "Pug"
oldvolkshome@gmail.com
http://www.oldvolkshome.com
**********************************
On 9/4/06, Charles McGehee <chasm@elltel.net> wrote:
>
> I must confess that the possibility of a counterfeit part did not occur
> to me. I had assumed, I guess, that counterfeiting was only a problem
with
> high-volume, low-value items, such as Rolex watches, or low-volume
> high-value items, such as replacement aircraft parts or Viagra. Somehow I
> don't think of a replacement coolant level relay as being worth the
trouble
> to counterfeit, but I may be way off on that.
>
> I do agree, though, that the modern world market drives manufacturers to
> improve quality and quickly. It wasn't too many years ago that the Korean
> Kia was regarded as a dog because of shoddy workmanship. Now it seems to
> have improved greatly with increased sales following. Whatever the
problems
> of China or elsewhere in Asia in the past, as Loren said, times are
> changing.
>
> Charles
> '85 Westy
>
>
> At 11:53 AM 9/4/2006, Old Volks Home wrote:
>
> Boy, I sure know to stir up a hornet's nest. ;-)
>
> One of the hats I wear here at VWG/Airhead is "Quality
> Assurance/Control". This requires me to inspect and sometimes test each
new
> reproduction item we have made before it even lands on the shelf to go out
> to the customer. My experience with the Chinese made automotive product,
> especially electrical items has been an educational journey into the
morasse
> of hit and miss, with some items having more misses than hits. In the
past
> 18 months, we have crushed and discarded several thousand dollars in Turn
> Signal and Headlight Switches, along with several different relays because
> of poorly manufactured and assembled quality. This did not include the
> coolant relay of the present discussion because we don't carry that in our
> line (YET). I might add that many of these same items we have made for
> ourselves are made in the same factories that supply Volkswagen, Mercedes,
> Nissan, Mazda, Honda and Toyota for their Chinese, Japanese, German,
Mexican
> and Brazil vehicle production lines. Our specified standards and
> item/sample approval are as rigorous as the OEM's, if not moreso. The
owner
> here (Scott) spent more time in China this year than his previous travels
in
> the past 10 years combined addressing the problems we have had. I'm only
> going by my personal experience, not an industry-wide survey.
>
> Several years ago I replaced the Fuel Pump Relay and the Fuel Injection
> Control Relay on my 84 Westy (located in that little plastic box in the
> engine compartment) because of severe corrosion noted. Since these are
> essentially the same relay type as used on driving/fog light assemblies
(but
> without a tab for the mounting) and are rated 40amp, they were relatively
> simple to find and install. Chinese made was all I found, so I installed
> them and one of them lasted just a few months, burnt to a crisp. Thinking
> something else might have been at fault to cause this, I went the whole
> route trouble-shooting what they actually operated and found nothing that
> could have contributed to its demise. I bought and installed the German
> made variety for both and haven't had a problem since. But as Loren Busch
> says, times are changing, so the quality factor may have come up since
then.
>
>
> Just because the VW-Audi Logo appears on a product doesn't denote quality,
> Chinese, German, Mexican or Brazilian. That's unfortunate, because anyone
> can silkscreen that on, especially the parts counterfeiters that have
> mushroomed in the far east. Here at the West Coast ports there have been
> millions of dollars in counterfeit auto parts seized and crushed to
prevent
> shoddy merchandise reaching the end consumer.
>
> I agree that higher costs don't always translate into better quality and
> lower costs don't always translate into poorer quality. But my personal
> experience with buying and selling parts for almost 30 years certainly
bears
> a lot of weight in the opinion that items coming from the ORIGINAL
> manufacturer of an item is the standard to work from when determining
which
> is the better value. That's probably the driving force that makes me
> "brow-beat" the people I work with that shortcuts cannot and will not be
> tolerated when we choose to reproduce an item (Scott calls me the ULTIMATE
> "devil's advocate" when testing and approving an item).
>
> The Coolant Warning Relay in question made in China is perhaps a quality
> made unit, made with the blessing and approval of VW. But I've seen other
> OEM logo approved products coming out of Brazil and Mexico that while may
be
> approved for the local market it is intended for would not meet standards
of
> approval in the European or North American markets. The "stamp of
approval"
> is not the same world-wide because materials, craftsmanship and assembly
are
> not the same world-wide. Eventually it will be because the economy and
> quality standards of this century will demand that it be so.
>
> VW of China is about where VW do Brazil was about 25 years ago. My buddy
> has an 83 Brazilian produced Beetle (called a "Fusca") that he's had for
> around 18 years now. The paint quality certainly isn't up to German specs
> as rust and peeling have been prevalent in certain spots for several years
> now, the chrome on the bumpers is wasting away and the electrics sometimes
> gives him fits. This is a car that has been garaged and pampered in a dry
> climate since it was imported. The 1992 Mexican Beetle he also owns since
> new was much better made and it shows when placed side by side with his
> Fusca. And when he parks his unrestored but nearly perfect 68 Beetle next
> to the other two, man whadda world of difference!
>
> It certainly won't take China 25 years to move ahead of the Japanese or
> the Europeans. Today's much more rapid economy and quality demands will
see
> to that.
>
> So go with the Chinese relay. I agree with Mark Drillock, whom I
> appreciate his usually enlightened opinion, because if I didn't my Coolant
> Warning Light would still be blinking away (yep, it was both the relay and
> the gauge on mine).
>
> I dunno everything, but I try to learn at least one new thing every day
> :-)
> --
> Jim Thompson
> 84 Westfalia 2.1 "Ole Putt"
> 73 K Ghia Coupe "Denise"
> 72 411 Station Wagon "Pug"
> oldvolkshome@gmail.com
> http://www.oldvolkshome.com
> **********************************
> On 9/4/06, *Charles McGehee* <chasm@elltel.net> wrote:
> Well, I dunno. Is there really evidence that "Made in Germany" is
> absolutely better than "Made in China?" It's my impression that the
> Germans are riding a historical reputaiion which is not necessarily
> deserved. I know, for instance, that they are outsourcing work to
> Asia every bit as much as we are, and that one reason their "Made in
> Germany" parts, etc., are more expensive is because their production
> costs are so high. High price does not necessarily equate with good
> quality, nor does low price necessarily equate with poor quality,
> especially in this day and age. I assume -- maybe wrongly -- if VW
> allows their logo onto a product they approve of the quality. Maybe
> I'm wrong, but it would hurt them severely if parts bearing their
> name were shoddy wherever they're made. I also know that not all
> parts in German cars, etc., are necessarily made in Germany.
>
> So where does this leave me. If had clearer evidence that "Made in
> China" relays were bad, I'd avoid them.
>
> What's a mother to do?
>
> Charles
> "85 Westy
>
> At 07:39 PM 9/3/2006, you wrote:
> >Ahhhhh, made in Shanghai. No wonder their retail price is way below
> >the importing warehouse cost, much less the resulting markup for the
> >factory KAE relay, which retails for around $30 at VW (I think $27
> >or so at Bus Depot). Hope it works (I'll stick to buying KAE
> >relays, I haven't been much a fan of Chinese relays of late, even if
> >they do have the VW-Audi Logo) ;-)
> >--
> >Jim Thompson
> >84 Westfalia 2.1 "Ole Putt"
> >73 K Ghia Coupe "Denise"
> >72 411 Station Wagon "Pug"
> >< mailto:oldvolkshome@gmail.com <oldvolkshome@gmail.com>
>oldvolkshome@gmail.com
> > http://www.oldvolkshome.com
> >**********************************
> >On 9/3/06, Charles McGehee
> ><< mailto: chasm@elltel.net <%20chasm@elltel.net>> chasm@elltel.net>
> wrote:
> >Ugh. You made my day, Warren. But thanks for the heads up. It's
> >hard not to ignore a blinking light that seems to have a mind of its
> >own, I know.
> >As regards my problem, I finally found the relay and got it out --
> >no thanks to VW and Bentley. Unfortunately, though, it's a holiday
> >weekend, and being in a small town where parts are hard to come by
> >anyway, I'll have to wait until Tuesday to see what's
> >available. Will probably have to go on line to get one. By the way,
> >Triangle Auto Parts (dba <http://Innerauto.com <http://innerauto.com/>>
> Innerauto.com <http://innerauto.com/>) seems
> >to have the best price:
>
><http://www.innerauto.com/store/psearch.php?part_number=191919376a&x=14&y=5
>
>http://www.innerauto.com/store/psearch.php?part_number=191919376a&x=14&y=5
> >Charles
> >'85 Westy
> >At 08:26 AM 9/3/2006, Warren Lail wrote:
> > >Not sure about your blinking light, but a few years ago I had the
> > >same symptoms on my 87 GL "Long John." A normal round of short
> > >blinks at startup, and then afterward a non-stop blinking
> > >situation. If I turned the ignition off and then back on, sometimes
> > >it would go back out. However, it was not long afterward that I was
> > >driving around in Westcliff, CO, and blew a headgasket. As it
> > >turned out, the fan or fan switch (can't remember now) was defective
> > >and the engine overheated.
> > >
> > >I was never sure whether the blinking light and the blown head
> > >gasket were related, but after I had the head gasket repaired I also
> > >changed the fan, the switch, and the radiator and the problem never
> > >came recurred.
> > >
> > >The (possible) moral of the story: don't ignore those blinking lights!
> > >
> > >Warren L.
> > >88 Westy 2.2 "Billy Bones"
>
>
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