Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:05:51 -0400
Reply-To: "Dr.Chris" <gronski@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "Dr.Chris" <gronski@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Westy Soundproofing
In-Reply-To: <B3D9840D3F5A8847A28683EC1D17B84D7B5679@mta1.obpa.usda.gov>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed
Some pics posted under "1986 AdventureWesty Syncro GL" in the photos
section of the spare list or hotlink to:
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vanagon/photos/browse/f4cf
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Gerry,
I have taken on a HUGE soundproofing project. When I had my van
repainted white (from UPS brown) in the summer of 2005 I pulled out
the entire interior (except the dash), stripped the factory paint off
of the floor in the passenger compartment and cockpit, repainted it
with grey POR-15, and laid down B-Quiet soundproofing on just about
every hidden surface I could access.
To minimize potential water seepage below the soundproofing I butted
the sheets against each other and then put the second layer sheets in
the same direction offset half a sheet from each other (again butted
rather than overlapping). My girlfriend who was helping me suggested
running the second layer in the opposite direction, but that actually
creates an easier access point for water where the sheets cross,
whereas butting the sheets and layering them with a half sheet offset
creates about 6" overlap on each layer, making water getting bellow
the soundproofing quite unlikely.
I put three layers on the passenger compartment floor, sliding door,
cockpit floor, cockpit roof, and rear hatch. Actually over half of the
rear hatch is SIX layers as there was a substantial overlap in the
middle and I did not bother cutting the sheets for height.
I put one layer in the secret compartment under the front seats, and
one on the inner circle of the seat swivel. I put two layers on most
of the outer walls, another two on the inner walls, front doors,
sliding door, and engine hump / behind rear seat. On the rear engine
hump / behind the rear seat I also put down a full layer of B-Quiet
L-Comp. My reasoning for the L-Comp was two fold:
1) The rear deck area is less likely to get water on it (unlike the
floor of the cockpit and passenger compartment) so I'm less worried
about the foam in the L-Comp trapping water.
2) The engine and rear wheels are located there and are a big source
of noise so I'd like to get as much soundproofing as I can in there.
For the exterior side walls, hatch, and slider, I stayed an inch or so
away from any seam or support connection as I use Krown rustproofing
every year and I wanted the Krown to easily be able to get to seams
and welds. For the same reason I removed ALL fiberglass insulation and
did not introduce any new insulation into the cavities.
At the end of the day I used 600 sq ft of B-Quiet ultimate and 16sq ft
of L-Comp.
Now it may be the order I did the install with, but I would say
subjectively my biggest wins were doing the rear deck, the rear hatch,
and the cockpit roof. These areas are relatively easy to access. If I
was trying to do things on the cheap, or without pulling much (or any)
of the interior I would start there. If you're taking the quick and
dirty approach you could probably leave the rear closet in place and
in a westy the headliner above the cockpit is relatively
straightforward to remove.
After doing those quick wins I'd say the cockpit area around the
driver, especially over the wheel wells. You could probably skip the
paint strip and POR-15 steps if you stay off the floor.
The reasoning behind soundproofing is to decrease the resonance
created by metal vibration, and I'd say it works. All my doors close
with a satisfying "thunk" now. But there are other sources of noise to
consider chiefly tires and wind. I'll leave tires out of it but if you
van was built prior to 1988 here is what
http://www.gowesty.com/flow-thru_ventilation.html had to say about
quieting some of the wind noise:
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START GO WESTY QUOTE
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Prior to 1988, if all windows were closed, the only way air could get
out was through little exit vents located on the rear lower corner of
the front door interior panels. These are the plastic vent assemblies
with the little blue slide lever.
These vents allowed air to exit the interior. Sliding the lever toward
the front of the vehicle opens the vent, rearward closes it. On the
leading edge of the doors, in the door jam, there are three oval holes
that open into this hollow space of the door itself. As a Vanagon
plows through the air, air flows around the vehicle creating
low-pressure zones near the front door jam areas. VW engineers
realized this and used this low pressure to suck air out of the
interior of the vehicle. Air flows from the inside of the vehicle
through the little vent at the rear end of the front doors, through
the hollow door itself, into the door jam area, and out of the body
gap between the front door and front quarter panel. Genius, you say.
But what about the rear passengers, you say? And why, in 1988, did VW
put a rubber seal at this body gap, thus blocking all airflow through
it?
The flow through ventilation scheme completely changed and improved in
1988. This change coincided with the introduction of the switch from
chrome (or black) steel bumpers to the fiberglass "big bumpers" and
the accompanying front spoiler. In 1988 the rear-most side windows
have an added vent along the rear edge. It was necessary to shorten
the glass in order to make room for this vent as the opening in the
body stayed the same. These vents are air EXIT vents.
Interestingly, the little grills on the front door panels remained,
but if you remove them you will see the passageway behind them is
sealed, and there is no blue slide lever. The seal at the door gap
area was put there probably for reduced noise. I installed these seals
on my 1987 Vanagon, and added the rear vents too. It actually lowered
the wind noise a little, and the rear vents improved air flow inside
the vehicle, especially for the rear passengers. And now I have the
best of both worlds: improved flow-through ventilation and cool air
from the dash vents! You can say you knew me when I was nobody…
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END GO WESTY QUOTE
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I took some decibel readings at various speeds in my van when the
interior was totally stripped but I am not sure where they are (recall
I started this project in the summer of 2005). They won't mean much
anyway as since taking those readings I put on an AdventureWagen top
that substantially decreased wind noise (my initial reads were with
the westfalia top on, and no canvas. That said I will post them if I
can find them and will do a before and after comparison.
Thanks,
Chris
Some pics posted under "1986 AdventureWesty Syncro GL" in the photos
section of the spare list or hotlink to:
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/vanagon/photos/browse/f4cf
On 10/18/06, Royston, Jerry <gmr@obpa.usda.gov> wrote:
> I was wondering if any of you have done any soundproofing of your van or
> camper and if so what your experience has been. Is it worth the effort
> and expense? What would be the least expensive material to use that
> offers good results? It seems if you could make the van a bit quieter
> it would greatly enhance the driving pleasure.
>
> Gerry
>
