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Date:         Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:48:19 -0700
Reply-To:     Jon Kanas <kanas@QADAS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jon Kanas <kanas@QADAS.COM>
Subject:      AWD and Tires
Comments: cc: LeeKouns@WEBTV.NET
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Good Evening Lee,

AWD vehicles have either mechanical (viscous coupling like a Syncro) or electronic sensors which effectively measure wheel slip between wheels and lock the differential between the front and rear when there is a difference in speed. For a Vanagon, I believe that a 6% difference in speed of rotation is the specification to induce lockup. I looked at Elements when I was looking for a new car last year (ended up with an Outback XT). I believe that the Honda system is electronic. The wheel sensors for the ABS send signals to the traction control computer, which engages the front/rear differential when a difference is detected.

The short and long of this is that there is a significant probability of driveline damage on any AWD vehicle if tire wear is sufficient that the AWD fully engages while you are on dry pavement. Furthermore, you run the risk of Honda declining to honor the warranty on your Element if the tires are not essentially identical on all four corners, and you have any driveline problems. I strongly recommend replacing all 4 tires, then selling the two "OK" leftovers on Craigslist to recover some of your expense. You'll also avoid the "tire recycling" fee for those two tires, if you have such in your state. The Element has a front-drive bias, meaning under no-slip conditions the front wheels propel the car, hence greater wear on the front tires. You are probably a candidate for rotating the tires front to rear on a frequent basis to equalize this wear pattern.

I have, unfortunately, encountered the situation where an odd-size tire (compact spare) made our 1995 Outback essentially undrivable after a flat tire as the AWD would engage unexpectedly when turning, making the car very unmanageable during one very exciting freeway exit adventure. To make matters worse, the puncture we had was on the sidewall, and we ended up giving up three perfectly good tires in order to replace one. AWD systems are very sensitive and well engineered, and also incredibly expensive if you break them. --

Best Regards, Jon B Kanas

Longmont, Colorado; Cultural Center of the Universe Email: kanas@qadas.com <mailto:kanas@qadas.com> Website: http://www.qadas.com/~kanas <http://www.qadas.com/%7Ekanas> AOL Instant Messenger ID: KanasColo

Whenever morality is based on theology, whenever right is made dependent on divine authority, the most immoral, unjust, infamous things can be justified and established. -Ludwig Feuerbach, philosopher (1804-1872)

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Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 22:54:56 -0800 From: Lee Kouns <LeeKouns@WEBTV.NET> Subject: NVC Question on AWD and tire tread depth

Are there any all-wheel-drive experts out there who can enlighten me on something? Here's my situation: 1) The front two tires on my AWD Honda Element need to be replaced. 2) The rear tires seem barely worn. 3) I'm thinking of replacing the front tires only, with the exact same tire that is currently on the rear. 4) I've been told by a tire dealer that if there is too much wear on the rear tires that I risk damaging the drive train. (The transmission is manual--if that matters) Is there truth to what the tire dealer is telling me? If so, how much wear on the back tires is too much? I'm wondering if the dealer just wants to sell me 4 tires instead of 2?

As always, any comments on the matter will be greatly appreciated. Lee Kouns '88 Westy '04 Honda Element

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