Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:50:27 -0700
Reply-To: d spence <dkspence@TELUS.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: d spence <dkspence@TELUS.NET>
Subject: Re: Replace Hydraulic lifters with solid lifters?
In-Reply-To: <20061110025505.DDBT7N6BL2@priv-edtnaa04.telusplanet.net>
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Not a good idea these days. See below
> Can I replace stock hydraulic lifters with solid ones?
> Is this a bad idea?
goofymuso@YAHOO.CA
OIL IS KILLING OUR CARS!!!!! *
By: Keith Ansell, Foreign Parts Positively, Inc.
About a year ago I read about the reduction of zinc dithiophosphate
(ZDDP) in the oils supplied with API approval that could affect sliding
and high pressure (EP) friction in our cars. The reduction of these
chemicals in supplied oil was based on the fact that zinc, manganese
and/or phosphates reduce the effectiveness and eventually damage
catalytic converters and introduce minute amounts of pollutants into
our atmosphere.
A month or so ago I had a member of the Columbia Gorge MG Club bring a
totally failed camshaft and lifters back to me that had only 900 miles
on them!! I immediately contacted the camshaft re-grinder and asked how
this could happen. They were well aware of this problem as they were
starting to have many failures of this type. In the past, the lack of a
molybdenum disulfide camshaft assembly lubricant, at assembly, was
about the only thing that could create this type of problem. My
customer has assembled many engines and had lubricated the camshaft
properly and followed correct break in procedures.
This got me on the phone to Delta Camshaft, one of our major suppliers.
Then the bad news came out: Itís todayís ìmodernî API (American
Petroleum Industry) approved oils that are killing our engines.
Next call: To another major camshaft supplier, both stock and
performance (Crane). They now have an additive for whatever oil you are
using during break-in so that the camshaft and lifters wonít fail in an
unreasonably short period of time. They also suggest using a diesel
rated oil on flat tappet engines.
Next call: To a racing oil manufacturer that we use for the race cars
(Redline). Their response: ìWe are well aware of the problem and we
still use the correct amounts of those additives in our productsî. They
continued to tell me they are not producing API approved oils so they
donít have to test and comply. Their oils were NOT the ìnew, improved
and approvedî ones that destroy flat tappet engines! ìWe just build the
best lubricants possibleî. Sounds stupid, doesnít it, New-Approved but
inferior products, but it seems to be true for our cars.
To top this off: Our representative from a major supplier of
performance and street engine parts (EPWI) stopped by to ìwarn usî of
the problem of the NEW oils on flat tappet engines. This was a call
that the representative was making only because of this problem to warn
their engine builders! ìThe reduction of the zinc, manganese and
phosphates are causing very early destruction of cams and followersî.
They are recommending that, for now at least, there must be a proper
oil additive put in the first oil used on new engines, beyond the
liberal use of molydisulfide assembly lube. They have been told that
the first oil is the time the additives are needed but remain skeptical
that the first change is all that is necessary. Their statement: Use
diesel rated oils such as Delo or Rotella that are usually available at
auto stores and gas stations.
This problem is BIG! American Engine Rebuilder's Association (AERA)
Bulletin #TB2333 directly addresses this problem. I had a short
discussion with their engineer and he agreed with all that I had been
finding.
Next phone call was to a retired engineer from Clevite, a major bearing
and component manufacturer. First surprise was that he restored older
British Motor bikes. The second surprise was that he was ìVERYî aware
of this problem because many of the old bikes had rectangular tappets
that couldnít rotate and are having a very large problem with the new
oils. He has written an article for the British Bike community that
verify all the ìbad newsî we have been finding.
Comp Cams put out ì#225 Tech Bulletin: Flat Tappet Camshaftsî. They
have both an assembly lube and an oil additive. The telling sentence in
the bulletin was ìWhile this additive was originally developed
specifically for break-in protection, subsequent testing has proven the
durability benefits of its long term use. This special blend of
additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam
and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that
the oil companies have been required to remove from the off theñshelf
oilî.
Next question: Now what do we do?
From the camshaft re-grinders (DeltaCam) ìUse oils rated for diesel
useî, Delo (Standard Oil product) was named. About the same price as
other quality petroleum based oils. They are not API formulated and
have the zinc dithiophosphate we need in weights we are familiar with.
From the camshaft manufacturer (Crane): ìuse our additiveî for at least
the first 500 miles.
From General Motors (Chevrolet): add EOS, their oil fortifier, to your
oil, itís only about $12.00 for each oil change for an 8 ounce can
(This problem seems to be something GM has known about for some time!).
From Redline Oil: Use our street formulated synthetics. They have what
we need!
From our major oil distributor: Distributing Castro, Redline, Valvoline
and Industrial oils: ìAfter over a week of contacts we have verified
that the major oil companies are aware of the problemî. ìThe
representatives of the oil companies today are only aware of marketing
programs and have no knowledge of formulationî. The only major oil
companies they were aware of for doing anything to address this are
Valvoline that is offering an ìOff Road 20W-50î and Redline.
From Castrol: We are beginning to see a pattern emerging on older cars.
It may be advantageous to use a non-approved lubricant, such as oils
that are Diesel rated, 4 Cycle Motorcycle oils and other specified
diesel oils.
Last question: So what are we at Foreign Parts Positively going to do?
After much research we are switching toRedline Streetrated oils and
stocking the Castrol products that are diesel rated. Castrol, owned by
British Petroleum, is now just a brand name. This is a difficult
decision as we have been a dealer and great believer in all Castrol
Products for over 40 years. We have been using Castrol Syntech oil in
new engines for about 3 years so the cost difference in changing to
Redline is minimal. The actual cost in operation is also less as the
additive package in Redline makes a 1-year or up to 18,000 mile change
recommended! Yes, it is a long change interval but with lowered sulfur
levels and the elimination of lead and many other chemicals in the
fuels there are less contaminants in our oil from the fuel, which is
the major contributor to oil degradation. We will continue to offer the
Castrol products but will now only stock the suggested diesel oils that
they produce.
Too many things are starting to show up on this subject and it has cost
us money and time. Be aware that ìNew and Improvedî, or even products
we have been using for many years, are destroying our cars as it isnít
the same stuff we were getting even a year ago.
For the cars that use ìengine oilî in their gearboxes this may even
pose a problem as these additives that have been removed could be very
critical in gear wear. We will be using oil specifically formulated for
Manual Gearboxes with Brass Synchronizers. The only oils we are aware
of that fit the criteria are from General Motors and Redline.
Keith Ansell, President
Foreign Parts Positively, Inc.
From: Brit Bits Inc.
To: Dennis Coulthard
Talked to my cam guy. He says that delco makes a product called EOS
engine
additive which has both zinc and dithiophosphate in the correct
amounts. Just add it to the oil in the car.
Avenue West Auto carries Engine Oil Stabilizer (EOS) for $6.00.
Ken
