Joy, I couldn't agree more with your assessment. There was an article in Time last week that talked about America's disproportional response to events that were statistically remote vs. preparedness for events that were likely. My stepdad has every tech gadget you could want but he does not have health insurance, it almost killed him. He waited 24 hours during a mild heart attack before seeking treatment, why? becauase he was uninsured. He ended up getting 2 stents.

Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joy Hecht" <jhecht@ALUM.MIT.EDU> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:00 PM Subject: Re: "be Prepared" was OT-stranded in the wilderness

Mr. Kim's death really was sad, and he was so close to his car when they found him, too.

On the other hand, given the real likelihood of different kinds of disasters happening in our lives - at least those of us who do not live out in the country, and do not go exploring the wilderness - other precautions may make a lot more sense than storing a year's supply of food, or having arctic survival skills. In my life, and probably the lives of most of us, I tend to think that money in the bank and medical insurance are better protection against the more likely disasters than physical survival skills or a store of food in the basement.

Oh, and also backing up our hard disks!

Joy

**************************************************************** Joy Hecht now living in a real house in northern Virginia and Matilda, 1989 Burgundy Vanagon now living in the driveway and resting after two and a half years lugging Joy and her stuff around...

For musings about life traveling in the van or living in one place: http://www.joyhecht.net

****************************************************************

:::-----Original Message----- :::From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf :::Of John Rodgers :::Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 10:38 PM :::To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM :::Subject: Re: "be Prepared" was OT-stranded in the wilderness ::: :::Mark, :::You hit the nail on the head. 7 days of supplies would not be enough. ::: :::I had some really good friends in Anchorage who were of the Mormon :::faith. As part of their religious practice, they kept a years supply of :::food stuffs on hand. Cases of goods, 1500 pounds of whole kernel wheat :::in 5 gallon plastic Jerry Cans (dry, no mice) , lots of medical aids and :::supplies, tools, equipment, clothing, snowshoes. two guns - a rifle and :::a shotgun. . They lived the principles. And were better for it. ::: :::It was sad to read of Mr. Kim's demise. With a little training he and :::his family could have survived the ordeal handily and in comfort. I was :::privileged to attend the Air Forces Cool School (Arctic Survival) up :::near Fairbanks - I forget the name of that AFB up there. Spent 7 days in :::the wilderness - with temps ranging up and down between -20F and -35F. :::Bloody cold. I survived that 7 days with two cans of C-rations, a :::parachute, a machete and some matches. Two major ingredients I had that :::Mr. Kim had available was snow, and spruce trees. I learned how to build :::4 different kinds of shelters, and I spent my days in the woods in :::relative comfort, with no fear of freezing. Had he known how to build a :::shelter out of the spruce and snow, he and his family could have stayed :::quite toasty until help came, however long that took. ::: :::I perceive that we in our civilized world have gotten so far away from :::our subsistence roots, that if a real disaster struck, there would be a :::rapid die-off of millions, starting in the cities. And it is possible :::for such a disaster to occur. Like maybe a super volcano eruption like :::the one that occured at Yellowstone in the past. Or even something :::smaller, like Krakatoa or Mount Penatubo(sp). Things that affect the :::weather. There could be some significant earthquakes that tear up :::everything. Beleive it or not, the biggest earthquake that science knows :::anything about here in North America happened in the 1800's in the EAST :::no less. it formed Reelfoot Lake in Tennessee, and caused the :::Mississippi River to flow backward. Our old world is not a stable place. :::Nothing can be taken for granted. ::: :::We as a populace are a long way from our ties to the land, and an :::understanding of what it takes to live outside our technological :::society. Most people today don't even give a concious thought to the :::fact that plant life is the key to our existence - not the black angus :::steak from the butcher shop. It is why going green and staying there is :::so important. ::: :::Well, enough of my soap box. ::: :::Everybody go out and have a leafy green salad for lunch and say a prayer :::of thanks to your personal Diety for it. ::: :::Regards, ::: :::John Rodgers :::88 GL driver ::: :::Mark Tuovinen wrote: :::> Try living in earthquake country, they want us to be prepared to be :::self sufficient for at least seven days and after Katrina and FEMA's :::response you can see why even that is too short. The closest help real :::help that can be expected if Anchorage suffers a natural disaster is from :::Seattle which is about 1500 air or 2500 road miles away and if the :::airports are destroyed the next runway of size is in Fairbanks 370 miles :::to the North. See www.muni.org/oem/EarthquakeBasics.cfm for the current :::recomendations. What the page does not mention is that you should not :::keep your supplies inside of your house or garage, they need to be :::accessible even if your house is not safe to enter. Which could be why :::Alaskan old timers still put Caches in their yards. The dry goods and :::supplies are easy to store but water is more challenging, enough water :::for a family of four to last a week or more takes up a lot of space. :::> :::> Being self sufficient once was necessary for survival now too many :::expect others to take care of them in the event of a disaster. :::> :::> Mark in AK :::> :::> ----- Original Message ----- :::> From: "Dr.Chris" <gronski@GMAIL.COM> :::> Date: Thursday, December 7, 2006 12:21 pm :::> Subject: Re: "be Prepared" was OT-stranded in the wilderness :::> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM :::> :::> :::>> I think the blackout of 2004 and Katrina taught all of us that even :::>> North Americans need to be prepared. :::>> :::>> The government of Canada has even launched a campaign to encourage :::>> people to be prepared to survive in their homes for 72 hours in an :::>> emergency: :::>> :::>> http://getprepared.ca/index_e.asp :::>> :::>> Chris :::>> :::>> On 12/7/06, ------------- <VW4X4@verizon.net> wrote: :::>> :::>>> I've been on the mission lately about "Being Prepared" . :::>>> Who needs it! :::>>> We have our cell phones, we have our MAC card, we don't need nothin. :::>>> We don't have to think one minute in advance. We're in the USA. :::>>> We can buy anything, we need. We can drive our SUV's in a winter :::>>> white out, in a T-shirt. Someone will ball us out! We don't :::>>> :::>> need nothin! :::>> :::>>> Right? :::>>> :::>>> Joe. W :::>>> :::>>> :::>>> :::>>> John Rodgers wrote: :::>>> :::>>> :::>>>> It has been a lot of years since I have thought about this, :::>>>> :::>> but the case :::>> :::>>>> of Mr. Kim and his family has brought it to fore. :::>>>> :::>>>> I don't know about todays regulations, but in Alaska back in :::>>>> :::>> my flying :::>> :::>>>> days, every aircraft flying had to have an Emergency Locator :::>>>> :::>> Transmitter> > - or ELT - on board, Known various as Crash Locator :::>> Beacons and other :::>> :::>>>> names, they were activated by a "G" switch upon impact in case :::>>>> :::>> of a :::>> :::>>>> crash or one could simply turn them on. These beacons :::>>>> :::>> trasmitted a :::>> :::>>>> signal that would be picked up by search and rescue operations to :::>>>> triangulate where a a plane was down. :::>>>> :::>>>> In time, personal emergency transmitters became available to :::>>>> :::>> pilots.> > Transmitters that one could carry on ones person, as a :::>> supplemet to the :::>> :::>>>> one mounted in the aircraft. :::>>>> :::>>>> I don't know if such personal loctor beacons are available to :::>>>> :::>> day or :::>> :::>>>> not, but it might be wise to look into this and add one to ones :::>>>> collections of safety gear when out and about. Most episodes :::>>>> :::>> such a Mr. :::>> :::>>>> Kim's are just that, accidents. And accidents are always :::>>>> :::>> unexpected.> > :::>> :::>>>> If you are going to run down to the corer liquer store in a :::>>>> :::>> blinding> > snow storm, then by golly take your personal ELT with :::>> you. You may get :::>> :::>>>> disoriented in the storm and get lost. I'm being facetious :::>>>> :::>> here, but you :::>> :::>>>> get my drift I hope. BE PREPARED. :::>>>> :::>>>> One thing I learned in Alaska. You don't goe even the shortest :::>>>> :::>> distance> > in the winter without winter clothing on. Something :::>> could happen, and :::>> :::>>>> you are done. :::>>>> :::>>>> I lived in Fairbanks, and there was a Mountain top there with :::>>>> :::>> an AF :::>> :::>>>> Radar Station on top. A place called Murphy's Dome. One winter :::>>>> :::>> night an :::>> :::>>>> Airman had to drive up there to relieve the other airmen :::>>>> :::>> running the :::>> :::>>>> radar. Back then this place was a drive of a few miles, away :::>>>> :::>> from the :::>> :::>>>> city on a dirt road. In 20 driving minutes and the guy should :::>>>> :::>> have been :::>> :::>>>> there. The Airman was a flatlander, and he didn't put on :::>>>> :::>> boots. Wore :::>> :::>>>> street shoes, Jeep broke down half way up the mountain. he :::>>>> :::>> tried walking :::>> :::>>>> and froze his feet. Nasty damage. Got medically discharged :::>>>> :::>> from the :::>> :::>>>> military. :::>>>> :::>>>> One cold day on the Kenai where I lived, I did such a simple :::>>>> :::>> thing as :::>> :::>>>> walk to my garage, which was 20 feet from the house. In that short :::>>>> distance I had a Moose Cow and Calf encounter. I couldn't get :::>>>> :::>> to the :::>> :::>>>> garage nor to the house. She chased me but I found sanctuary :::>>>> :::>> behind the :::>> :::>>>> wood pile. I stayed out in the cold for a solid 45 minutes :::>>>> :::>> before she :::>> :::>>>> decided to give it up and move on. Dang if I wasn't half :::>>>> :::>> frozen by the :::>> :::>>>> time I was able to get back in the house. I had to sit in a :::>>>> :::>> tub of hot :::>> :::>>>> water to get myself warmed up. :::>>>> :::>>>> Something I learned a long time ago from being a Boy Scout. , :::>>>> :::>> and it :::>> :::>>>> holds true today. "Be Prepared" :::>>>> :::>>>> John Rodgers :::>>>> 88 GL Driver :::>>>> :::>>>> TC wrote: :::>>>> :::>>>> :::>>>>> I have been following that story of the SF family that got :::>>>>> :::>> stranded> >> in the :::>> :::>>>>> Oregon coast mountains :::>>>>> my son asked what we would do if our 2 wd westy got :::>>>>> :::>> stuck/broke down :::>> :::>>>>> in some :::>>>>> remote winter area :::>>>>> :::>>>>> besides that fact we prolly have 2 weeks of food , propane, :::>>>>> :::>> dual bats :::>> :::>>>>> etc & :::>>>>> some Garmin 2 way radios :::>>>>> we would prolly just hole up & camp out :) :::>>>>> :::>>>>> The interesting aspect was that the attempt to make a cell :::>>>>> :::>> phone call :::>> :::>>>>> and :::>>>>> the cdr records allowed :::>>>>> the searchers to grid search a cell phone tower coverage grid :::>>>>> :::>> this> >> allowed :::>> :::>>>>> them to be located :::>>>>> if everyone has stayed put the story would have a happy :::>>>>> :::>> ending ... :::>> :::>>>>> I was curious the Garmin rino 530 i always have in the van is GPS :::>>>>> enabled & :::>>>>> allows other Garmin :::>>>>> 2 ways to track to each other bu the coverage is only 2 miles :::>>>>> :::>> in bad :::>> :::>>>>> terrain :::>>>>> Yet I can usually get a GPS fix as long as there is not much tree :::>>>>> cover just :::>>>>> about any remote locations.. :::>>>>> :::>>>>> Are there any inexpensive devices that would send a gps fix to :::>>>>> international :::>>>>> emergency satalite :::>>>>> the allow searches to home in on sone lost / stranded in the :::>>>>> :::>> westy> >> wilderness ? :::>> :::>>>>> :::>>>> :::> :::>