Date:         Thu, 14 Dec 2006 13:21:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Jeff Lincoln <magikvw@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jeff Lincoln <magikvw@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: I'll bite on the diesel---safety and getting flipped off
In-Reply-To:  <5d903de80612140945h1fb5f74dq33a22891d2be9a9d@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I know this is slightly off topic but not entirely. Do any of you find that
people pull out in front of you more often when driving your van? It happens
to me repeatedly - it's like I'm invisible. Now I know our rigs are
notoriously slow but I don't think the average public really knows that. So
what is it? I mean in my area I am damn near the most noticeable vehicle on
the road.

On 12/14/06, Raymond Paquette <raymondpaquette@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just to fess up on the road rage issue...
>
> I know that I'm certainly more at peace when we travel in the van than in
> my
> wife's Hyundai.
>
> In the Hyundai, everyone is always in my way, slowing me down, but the
> road
> is always clear in front of the van.
>
> Much more relaxed for me.
>
> Raymond
>
>
>
> On 12/13/06, Jon Tromp <tromper@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > I'll nibble on this one just a tetch,
> >
> > Living in the aforementioned Washington (Pugetropolis area), & having
> > owned
> > two different Diesels (not counting a parts van or two), with 4
> different
> > engines, & three different transmissions I have a bit of a diverse
> > opinion.
> > I never did use a TDI, I really don't think it's worth that kind of
> money,
> > but if I came accross a deal on one I'd probably do it.
> >
> > First-  Stock motor.  Yup it's slow, both of my stock motors wore out
> > while
> > I had 'em.  The first one was kinda weak, even for a stock diesel, the
> > second was OK for stock diesel but still pretty slow from word go.  You
> > learned patience, & planning for all things.  They both got 25 to about
> > 30.
> > I've heard of better but it's hilly country around here. I think I got
> 35
> > once in the first one (5 spd)when I was on the aforementioned WA Oregon
> > coast (no worries on the bridge, I crossed it about 6 times one day
> while
> > my
> > lady used the camera, handling is an issue of how ya drive it if you
> > respect
> > that you're in an underpowered brick, & don't feel the need to do 90 in
> > high
> > winds you're fine.
> >
> > First "safety" For the most part the tailgators, & others didn't bug me
> > much
> > cuz though my motor was weak, it was in the back if they hit me,& my
> > brakes
> > were fine if they tried to play moron games.  I was generally going to
> > slow
> > for them to want to play their little games.  Being behind me they
> > abhorred
> > & tailgating didn't make it any more pleasant.  They'd rush past me, &
> > attempt to cut me off to prove themselves, but I was generally a bit
> > sloweer
> > then they though so by the time they'd do that they'd be more then far
> > 'nuff
> > ahead so I could react easily if necessary.  Ergo no "safty" issues from
> > road ragers.  Far as getting flipped off.  Either ignore 'em if you see
> > 'em,
> > or respond by nodding your head (accepting their invitation), or hold up
> > your hand with your forefinger, & thumb about an cm or two apart, &
> shake
> > your head no. ("sorry too small") It can be priceless if they figure out
> > what you mean.
> >
> > Next "safety" issue.  Lack of power up hills.  I'm not sure which pass
> he
> > was doing.  I was through the cascades on the backroads etc.  Yup it was
> > slow.  No worries, I was there for the scenery.  Just stick it in the
> > truck
> > lane, & away I go.  I acknowledge I don' thave a westie so it wasn't the
> > slowest available but I could keep it over 25.
> >
> > If Lance Armstrong wanted to pass me up the grade he could, but any
> > cyclist
> > not in that league would be hard pressed.  I salute your wife sir.
> >
> > I upgraded the first one to a 1.8 gas digifant II setup, around 100
> horse.
> > I kept the stock trannie, so it wasn't fast, but was a little quick.  I
> > will
> > admit to having a bit of fun at stop lights.  It was drivable, quiet, &
> > got
> > mileage in the mid 20's to about 30.  Same as both stock diesels.
> > When, after many miles of reving cuz of the tranny I blew that up, I
> > picked
> > up another body shell, cuz my old one was beat.  That had a stock diesel
> > that went a bout year after straightening out issues from the moron who
> > owned it before me (I started using his list of things he'd done as a
> > checklist to repair)
> > A bit stronger then the other one, but eventually that motor died, & I
> > installed my current setup. 1.6 turbo diesel with intercooler.  I've
> never
> > dyno'd it but the specs on those seem to run 'round a hundred horse.
> > roughly the same as the digifant II in that respect with a little better
> > torque.  This time I swapped the trans for one that was out of an 84,
> non
> > westy.  It's not quick since it really should have the aircooled tranny
> in
> > it ,but those are a bit tough to find.  Nonetheless.  Mileage varies
> from
> > about 23 if I live on the fuel, & keep it above 65 on the highway to 30
> > (my
> > lady pulled 32ish once) if I keep it mellow.  It can do eighty something
> > in
> > the flats, & keeps up fine in the passes (sorry Lance).
> >
> > In conclusion.
> > Drivabilty. Doubling the HP works just fine, & the stock ones are
> > drivable,
> > just a different kind of driving.
> >
> > "Safety" - my fav 00's buzzword.  Bad drivers are bad drivers whether
> it's
> > road rage (temporary bad driving) or a more permant condition.  They're
> an
> > issue regardless of horse power.  If you take the time to learn to deal
> > with
> > the lower power motor it's not too bad, & actually kind of a relief
> since
> > you know you can't make up the lost time there's no point in trying (a
> > common cause of "road rage" is being behind & trying to make it up by
> > weaving in traffic).
> >
> > Join the Dork Side!! Get a diesel!!
> >
> > Tromper
> > 82 Intercooled TD.
> > Seattleish, WA
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
> > Of Jim Felder
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:48 AM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: I'll bite on the diesel---safety and getting flipped off
> >
> >
> > Seldom do I read a thread on diesel Vanagons that doesn't include
> > references to both safety
> >
> >
> >
> > > We were being unsafely passed by double trailer gravel semis going
> > > up a long pass, Montezuma Grade, out of the So. Cal desert across
> > > the San Deigo mountains..We were even passed by my wife on her
> > > bicycle, going up a 9% climb..Slooow!
> > >   So, even if you were to double the hp by all kinds of mods, it
> > > would still be dangerous to drive due to it being so slow as to
> > > cause a hazard and to cause other drivers to pass unsafely due to
> > > their frustration..
> > >
> > >
> >
> > and references to the one-fingered salute that diesel Vanagons seem
> > to earn from other drivers.
> >
> > > but, if you aren't in a hurry and don't mind a few One finger
> > > greetings as people speed past...we got dozens in the canadain van
> > > in just 2 hours...about 60 miles..Hee hee.
> > >      Don Hanson
> > >
> >
> > In respect to those issues, I have two comments.
> >
> > I drive both a diesel and a gas Vanagon. I drive them in all kinds of
> > places and in all kinds of conditions. I have never been flipped off
> > by another driver that I am aware of. Maybe it's that my area of the
> > country (the south) is more laid back, though you wouldn't know it to
> > drive our Interstates. My point is that getting flipped off has as
> > much or more to do with the people of an area than what you happen to
> > be driving.
> >
> > On the safety issue, can one EVER be passed safely by a double
> > trailer gravel semi? And does anyone on the list know of a driver
> > actually being rear-ended or otherwise harmed in a diesel vanagon by
> > driving it even among a bunch of impatient morons?
> >
> > I've never heard of such an accident on the Yahoo! diesel vanagon
> > group (which is worth a visit if you're planning any kind of
> > conversion to diesel--there are several conversions that provide the
> > oomph you're looking for and match the diesel's slower RPM to the
> > gear ratios available for the Vanagon) but it is presumed so often
> > that I wanted to ask the question.
> >
> > Sure, slow vehicles like diesel Vanagons bring out the worst in
> > impatient, dull-witted 24-year-olds who are late for work driving
> > cars with 280 horsepower and 0-to-60 times of under five seconds. But
> > guess what? So does just about everything else.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>



--
Thanks,

Jeff
90' Carat (It's Blue, It's Beautiful, It needs a lot of work)
86' (Soon to be donating organs to the 90')
85' GL (sidelined but to be resurrected in the near future)