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Date:         Thu, 14 Dec 2006 12:12:03 -0600
Reply-To:     Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: I'll bite on the diesel---safety and getting flipped off
Comments: To: Raymond Paquette <raymondpaquette@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <5d903de80612140945h1fb5f74dq33a22891d2be9a9d@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

I have a photographer friend who I work with and drive with a lot. When we're doing outdoor stuff, we camp in the Westy. Otherwise, I ride with him in his superfast cars. EVERYTHING is in his way, NOBODY is alert enough. He's always amazed when we get where we're going in about the same time in the Westy as we would have with his frenetic driving. He knows he shouldn't be like that, but he can't help his impulses when he's in one of his cars.

I was watching this morning as several people were trying to turn out onto a road one short block from a turn off a main highway. When I moved to this town in 1983, traffic moved from the turn better because virtually nobody could make the turn from the main highway and then accelerate fast enough to block the exit we were all trying to leave from. Now, almost any car but mine can keep drivers bottled up interminable because their cars allow them to take the corner off the main drag and accelerate away like a hail of machine gun fire. Walking across the street to a neighboring office building is impossible most of the day. This sort of situation makes towns put in more stoplights and speed bumps, which slows driving down, which is counterproductive for all of us (not to mention a big part of municipal budgets that could otherwise be used to make our towns nicer in sooooo many ways).

So, are our cars not only ruining our environment, but making ***holes out of us, too?

Jim

On Dec 14, 2006, at 11:45 AM, Raymond Paquette wrote:

> Just to fess up on the road rage issue... > > I know that I'm certainly more at peace when we travel in the van > than in my > wife's Hyundai. > > In the Hyundai, everyone is always in my way, slowing me down, but > the road > is always clear in front of the van. > > Much more relaxed for me. > > Raymond > > > > On 12/13/06, Jon Tromp <tromper@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> I'll nibble on this one just a tetch, >> >> Living in the aforementioned Washington (Pugetropolis area), & having >> owned >> two different Diesels (not counting a parts van or two), with 4 >> different >> engines, & three different transmissions I have a bit of a diverse >> opinion. >> I never did use a TDI, I really don't think it's worth that kind >> of money, >> but if I came accross a deal on one I'd probably do it. >> >> First- Stock motor. Yup it's slow, both of my stock motors wore out >> while >> I had 'em. The first one was kinda weak, even for a stock diesel, >> the >> second was OK for stock diesel but still pretty slow from word >> go. You >> learned patience, & planning for all things. They both got 25 to >> about >> 30. >> I've heard of better but it's hilly country around here. I think I >> got 35 >> once in the first one (5 spd)when I was on the aforementioned WA >> Oregon >> coast (no worries on the bridge, I crossed it about 6 times one >> day while >> my >> lady used the camera, handling is an issue of how ya drive it if you >> respect >> that you're in an underpowered brick, & don't feel the need to do >> 90 in >> high >> winds you're fine. >> >> First "safety" For the most part the tailgators, & others didn't >> bug me >> much >> cuz though my motor was weak, it was in the back if they hit me,& my >> brakes >> were fine if they tried to play moron games. I was generally >> going to >> slow >> for them to want to play their little games. Being behind me they >> abhorred >> & tailgating didn't make it any more pleasant. They'd rush past >> me, & >> attempt to cut me off to prove themselves, but I was generally a bit >> sloweer >> then they though so by the time they'd do that they'd be more then >> far >> 'nuff >> ahead so I could react easily if necessary. Ergo no "safty" >> issues from >> road ragers. Far as getting flipped off. Either ignore 'em if >> you see >> 'em, >> or respond by nodding your head (accepting their invitation), or >> hold up >> your hand with your forefinger, & thumb about an cm or two apart, >> & shake >> your head no. ("sorry too small") It can be priceless if they >> figure out >> what you mean. >> >> Next "safety" issue. Lack of power up hills. I'm not sure which >> pass he >> was doing. I was through the cascades on the backroads etc. Yup >> it was >> slow. No worries, I was there for the scenery. Just stick it in the >> truck >> lane, & away I go. I acknowledge I don' thave a westie so it >> wasn't the >> slowest available but I could keep it over 25. >> >> If Lance Armstrong wanted to pass me up the grade he could, but any >> cyclist >> not in that league would be hard pressed. I salute your wife sir. >> >> I upgraded the first one to a 1.8 gas digifant II setup, around >> 100 horse. >> I kept the stock trannie, so it wasn't fast, but was a little >> quick. I >> will >> admit to having a bit of fun at stop lights. It was drivable, >> quiet, & >> got >> mileage in the mid 20's to about 30. Same as both stock diesels. >> When, after many miles of reving cuz of the tranny I blew that up, I >> picked >> up another body shell, cuz my old one was beat. That had a stock >> diesel >> that went a bout year after straightening out issues from the >> moron who >> owned it before me (I started using his list of things he'd done as a >> checklist to repair) >> A bit stronger then the other one, but eventually that motor died, >> & I >> installed my current setup. 1.6 turbo diesel with intercooler. >> I've never >> dyno'd it but the specs on those seem to run 'round a hundred horse. >> roughly the same as the digifant II in that respect with a little >> better >> torque. This time I swapped the trans for one that was out of an >> 84, non >> westy. It's not quick since it really should have the aircooled >> tranny in >> it ,but those are a bit tough to find. Nonetheless. Mileage >> varies from >> about 23 if I live on the fuel, & keep it above 65 on the highway >> to 30 >> (my >> lady pulled 32ish once) if I keep it mellow. It can do eighty >> something >> in >> the flats, & keeps up fine in the passes (sorry Lance). >> >> In conclusion. >> Drivabilty. Doubling the HP works just fine, & the stock ones are >> drivable, >> just a different kind of driving. >> >> "Safety" - my fav 00's buzzword. Bad drivers are bad drivers >> whether it's >> road rage (temporary bad driving) or a more permant condition. >> They're an >> issue regardless of horse power. If you take the time to learn to >> deal >> with >> the lower power motor it's not too bad, & actually kind of a >> relief since >> you know you can't make up the lost time there's no point in >> trying (a >> common cause of "road rage" is being behind & trying to make it up by >> weaving in traffic). >> >> Join the Dork Side!! Get a diesel!! >> >> Tromper >> 82 Intercooled TD. >> Seattleish, WA >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On >> Behalf >> Of Jim Felder >> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:48 AM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: Re: I'll bite on the diesel---safety and getting flipped off >> >> >> Seldom do I read a thread on diesel Vanagons that doesn't include >> references to both safety >> >> >> >> > We were being unsafely passed by double trailer gravel semis going >> > up a long pass, Montezuma Grade, out of the So. Cal desert across >> > the San Deigo mountains..We were even passed by my wife on her >> > bicycle, going up a 9% climb..Slooow! >> > So, even if you were to double the hp by all kinds of mods, it >> > would still be dangerous to drive due to it being so slow as to >> > cause a hazard and to cause other drivers to pass unsafely due to >> > their frustration.. >> > >> > >> >> and references to the one-fingered salute that diesel Vanagons seem >> to earn from other drivers. >> >> > but, if you aren't in a hurry and don't mind a few One finger >> > greetings as people speed past...we got dozens in the canadain van >> > in just 2 hours...about 60 miles..Hee hee. >> > Don Hanson >> > >> >> In respect to those issues, I have two comments. >> >> I drive both a diesel and a gas Vanagon. I drive them in all kinds of >> places and in all kinds of conditions. I have never been flipped off >> by another driver that I am aware of. Maybe it's that my area of the >> country (the south) is more laid back, though you wouldn't know it to >> drive our Interstates. My point is that getting flipped off has as >> much or more to do with the people of an area than what you happen to >> be driving. >> >> On the safety issue, can one EVER be passed safely by a double >> trailer gravel semi? And does anyone on the list know of a driver >> actually being rear-ended or otherwise harmed in a diesel vanagon by >> driving it even among a bunch of impatient morons? >> >> I've never heard of such an accident on the Yahoo! diesel vanagon >> group (which is worth a visit if you're planning any kind of >> conversion to diesel--there are several conversions that provide the >> oomph you're looking for and match the diesel's slower RPM to the >> gear ratios available for the Vanagon) but it is presumed so often >> that I wanted to ask the question. >> >> Sure, slow vehicles like diesel Vanagons bring out the worst in >> impatient, dull-witted 24-year-olds who are late for work driving >> cars with 280 horsepower and 0-to-60 times of under five seconds. But >> guess what? So does just about everything else. >> >> Jim >> >


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