Date:         Tue, 26 Dec 2006 23:47:27 -0800
Reply-To:     Nathaniel Poole <npoole@TELUS.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Nathaniel Poole <npoole@TELUS.NET>
Subject:      Re: Come out of the closet, all
In-Reply-To:  <7A4DED68-2491-40BD-BF7F-2A1C4E4E6CB6@knology.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

My experience is that folks who do not consider themselves artists have a
distorted view of what it means to be one (especially those secret,
frustrated artists out there). Culturally itıs a loaded label, very
different from other professions. Unfortunately, pop culture has created a
very skewed and distorted idea of what it means to be an artist, which is
one reason why so many artists are tweakers, junkies, misfits, antisocial
etc, etc. As an artist you are expected to be messed up, and this is
reinforced over and again in mass media. Often these individuals (ie Ray
Charles, Johnny Cash) are also portrayed as larger than life geniuses, which
also contributes to the myth
Itıs important to recognise that the distinction between fine art and pop
art was created to differentiate the elite from the ³masses², at least in
literature. Not to mention that fact that you need a BFA to understand what
the hell is happening at a local gallery. All this contributes to a snob
stigma that I believe tends to hover around the profession.
This is all so ironic given the utter lack of support there really is for
artists, especially those who are not celebrities. Maybe these vans of ours
help bridge some of these stupid, unnecessary cultural gaps.



On 12/26/06 8:43 PM, "Jim Felder" <felder@KNOLOGY.NET> wrote:

> Evan,
> 
> With all due respect, I don't recall seeing any such distinction
> being allowed for in Joy's post. Imagine being called a snob because
> you were a lifeong piano tuner. Whether or not you could prove you
> were in the top 100 piano tuners in the western world, you'd still
> consider it an offense if you were called a snob because of your
> profession. Even if you didn't consider it offensive, you'd likely
> write a response such as I felt entitled to.
> 
> I don't consider myself superior to anyone. I don't consider myself
> exceptional. I just do what I do, and it usually involves art and
> creativity, even when I am rebuilding an engine helping my
> granddaughter with her homework, as that is how I solve problems. Are
> there better ways to solve problems? I sure hope so.  I am good with
> my hands no matter what I apply them to; that's all I have to work
> with. If I were to say I was good with numbers, or running, or
> lifting weights, or or fitting into tight spaces, would I be a snob?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> On Dec 26, 2006, at 10:14 PM, Evan Mac Donald wrote:
> 
>> Jim, I don't think YOU are one of the type of people that was being
>> refered to. You are actually, prove-ably using your skills. Not
>> claiming to have some, with little actual result...
>> 
>> Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET> wrote:  There seems to be
>>> snob thing about calling oneself an artist, or creative, or
>>> "dancing to a
>>> different drummer" - as if it made us all so exceptional and
>>> different and
>>> therefore somehow superior to all those more mundane folks out
>>> there. I
>>> don't want to go there.
>> 
>> Why is it that you think that in calling myself an artist--I paint,
>> illustrate, design and write for a living--that I'm being any more of
>> a "snob" than someone who calls himself or herself an engineer or
>> policeman or attorney?
>> 
>> If there's snobbery about my profession, it seems to be coming from
>> that chip on your shoulder, not mine. I am an artist, have never been
>> anything but an artist, and have never been expected (until now) to
>> apologize for it (which I won't).
>> 
>> Don't call me a snob because of what I do.
>> 
>> Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Joy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> :::-----Original Message-----
>>> :::From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On
>>> Behalf
>>> :::Of joe trussell
>>> :::Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:04 PM
>>> :::To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> :::Subject: Re: Come out of the closet, all
>>> :::
>>> :::This is a good topic, and I apologize for coming to the party
>>> late--it's
>>> :::been a busy weekend!
>>> :::
>>> :::I write and occasionally get published, although I'm not sure if
>>> that
>>> :::makes
>>> :::me a writer. I write poetry, and some of that gets published as
>>> well,
>>> :::but
>>> :::I'm not sure if it's art.
>>> :::
>>> :::I've been playing guitar in a band called Chester Drawers for
>>> thirteen
>>> :::years, a band that consists of me and a buddy who get together
>>> once a
>>> :::week
>>> :::and drink beer and learn songs, but we've never actually played
>>> a gig in
>>> :::an
>>> :::establishment, so I don't know if that makes me a musician.
>>> :::
>>> :::I occasionally cater parties and events with jambalaya, gumbo,
>>> boiled
>>> :::crawfish, or fried catfish, but that doesn't make me a chef.
>>> :::
>>> :::I've been in the securities industry for twelve years, but I do
>>> it to pay
>>> :::the bills and choose not to let the career dictate how I live (I
>>> have my
>>> :::kids for that).
>>> :::
>>> :::I drive a Vanagon and have torn it down and rebuilt it along
>>> with a dozen
>>> :::other cars, but that doesn't make me a mechanic.
>>> :::
>>> :::Driving this Vanagon puts me in about a .01 percentile among
>>> drivers in
>>> :::this
>>> :::country, and I like that. As I've said before, my vehicle is
>>> the best
>>> :::(in
>>> :::my mind). I'm not really sure what my identity is but I know it
>>> involves
>>> :::this odd machine.
>>> :::
>>> :::So, I'm not quite arsty-fartsy, not quite buttoned-up, not
>>> really a
>>> :::hippie,
>>> :::and most certainly not quite sane. That makes me a Vanagon owner.
>>> :::
>>> :::Joe T.
>>> :::
>>> :::
>>> :::
>>> :::>From: mordo
>>> :::>Reply-To: mordo
>>> :::>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> :::>Subject: Come out of the closet, all
>>> :::>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:12:45 -0500
>>> :::>
>>> :::>Former woodwright and ornamental plasterer. Currently selling and
>>> :::managing
>>> :::>the craft of ornamental plaster and scagliola restoration.
>>> :::>
>>> :::>www.haylesandhowe.com
>>> :::>
>>> :::>--
>>> :::>mordo
>>> :::>1990 Carat
>>> :::
>>> :::_________________________________________________________________
>>> :::Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN
>>> Shopping
>>> :::Sales & Deals
>>> :::http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?
>>> ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639
>>> 
>> 
>> Jim Felder
>> felder@knology.net
>> 
>> "I long ago lost a hound, a bay horse, and a turtle dove, and am
>> still on their trail. Many are the travelers I have spoken to
>> concerning them, describing their tracks and what calls they answered
>> to. I have met one or two who had heard the hound, and the tramp of
>> the horse, and even seen the dove disappear behind a cloud, and they
>> seemed as anxious to recover them as if they had lost them
>> themselves." - henry thoreau
>>