Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:52:58 -0600
Reply-To: Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
Subject: Re: '82 Diesel Westy For Sale in Denver (Glendale) CO
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-F33E8D85CA4823300CE28E0BAB00@phx.gbl>
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On Jan 12, 2007, at 11:35 AM, joe trussell wrote:
> Thanks for all of the info, Jim. Just what I was looking for.
>
> The interior is in great shape, but it does have rust problems. I
> was thinking of this as a very long-term project--get it home, take
> it apart, see what I've got, and go from there. I've read a little
> bit about the TDI swap and it sounds fairly straightforward,
> although there are gearing issues to consider as well.
Karl Mullendore on the diesel group tweaks the internals of the
standard Bosch mechanical pump so it will work with the TDI. This
obviates the need to wire in a bunch of stuff to make the TDI
electronics work in the primitive vanagon, but you get the great TDI
engine and its power. Others like the 1.9 NA, the 1.9 turbo, and of
course the 1.6 turbo. But with many of these high-powered
conversions, there are gearing issues. You want to make sure you end
up with a car that's not twisting axles off up to 65 but can't go any
faster because it's rev-limited. Anything that came in a 1.6 vanagon
is going to be geared pretty low, though I think some people fit
waterboxer transmissions to their conversions. I'm not sure though
because I've never really looked into it other than building up a TD
for my car, which utilized the standard 5-speed just fine. Again, I
defer to those on the DV list who have dealt with these issues.
>
> Is a bent rod a common issue with these? I've searched a couple of
> forums and haven't found anything related to this.
I wouldn't say common. You hear about it more than you do on
waterboxers, though. Thrown rods and blown head gaskets are
undoubtedly the biggest issues with these otherwise tolerant little
engines. What follows is my opinion, others may differ.
When the cars were made, the speed limit was 55, the aircooled
vanagons were tearing up engines right and left the the waterboxer
wasn't ready for production. All these factors led to the two-year
adaptation of the already-successful VW diesel 1600 into the vanagon
models. You end up with a pretty good package, but now you've got 25-
year-old cars with 48 hp engines trying to take these heavy,
unaerodynamic vehicles at modern highway speeds. I think the people
with the most thrown rods are those who think they can drive 70 all
day. 65 seems to be a safe speed, given that you have a healthy
engine. The westies are even harder on the little diesel than the
regular vans for obvious reasons.
All that said, mine has 255K miles on it and never had a thrown rod.
It's not like it's inevitable or anything.
Jim
>
> Thanks,
> Joe T.
>
>
>
>
>> From: Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
>> Reply-To: Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: '82 Diesel Westy For Sale in Denver (Glendale) CO
>> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:15:43 -0600
>>
>> The 1.6 diesel engine is downright enjoyable to work on compared to
>> about anything else in my experience. When you are able to get on to
>> the yahoo! diesel group, I think you'll find that most others there
>> agree. I'm sure glad I learned to make mine into a good dependable
>> car with the help of this group and the Yahoo! diesel vanagon group.
>>
>> Parts are readily available as the engine was used in so many cars...
>> rabbits, jetta, vanagons, quantums, caddies, and more. And they were
>> made for a long time.
>>
>> The car is very slow, probably almost as slow as a 1.6 aircooled loaf
>> van. If that bothers you, consider an upgrade before you even start.
>> And no matter what you upgrade to, you'll probably be limited to
>> about 65 mph top end because of gearing issues.
>>
>> That said, the diesel vanagon list has its members who have created
>> exceptional cars that are notable exceptions to the broad statements
>> above. Karl Mullendore, Scott, Andrew Libby and others have done
>> amazing things with their cars and customers' cars. And don't forget
>> that just about any 1.8 vw gas inline will bolt right into the setup
>> that holds the original diesel in place. Plus, you'll have more
>> power.
>>
>> But you won't have a diesel.
>>
>> You almost never have to do anything to a good diesel engine except
>> change the filters. Water doesn't hurt them. There is only one wire
>> to the engine, besides the sensors, and that operates the fuel
>> shutoff on the injector pump. They get good mileage. You will need
>> about a hundred and fifty dollars worth of special tools available
>> from vwdieselparts.com: a cam locker, injector pump locker, camshaft
>> pulley remover, metric feeler gauges, valve adjusting tools, dial
>> indicator and so forth if you're going to time and setup your engine
>> yourself. You can of course convert to some form of biodiesel if you
>> want.
>>
>> The bad, besides the slow speeds, are the things that people
>> generally don't like about diesels. They tend to be sootier and
>> noisier than their gas counterparts, and can be more difficult to
>> start without a block heater in extreme cold (though not by my
>> experience, I live in the south).
>>
>> And while I don't recommend taking a good vehicle off the road just
>> for the profit in it (though those parts tend to keep other vanagons
>> running) the special oil pan, engine mounts, and transmission bell
>> housing will bolt right into a gas vanagon to adapt inline VW gas and
>> diesel engines to it, and thus just those parts go for around a
>> grand.
>>
>> If it has a good set of hoses, they're about priceless. If it has a
>> couple of good chrome bumpers and a good sliding door handle (the
>> long ones from the old vanagons are pricey) and instrument cluster
>> and plastic heater vent cover, there's probably a few more hundred.
>> Just about everything but the drive train is standard early vanagon
>> and westy and is priced as such.
>>
>> She's asking too much in my opinion unless the body and interior are
>> really good. You'll spend about a grand is you have to find another
>> engine (though I've bought them well used for $100, $235 for a used
>> turbo engine) to work with. Once you get a rebuildable engine, you'll
>> spend about $700 to $1000 making it top notch (bore, pistons, rings,
>> gaskets, bearings, clutch, PP and TO bearing, rebuilt head, etc. and
>> I recommend $200 for raceware studs if you can swing it. You won't be
>> sorry). If the transmission is bad, you'll spend normal vanagon money
>> to get it fixed. If you're lucky enough to get an 83 with a five
>> speed, you'll like it better. If you're unlucky enough to get an 83
>> five speed with a bad transmission, you'll pay twice as much. But,
>> then you're good for another 250K miles. I have to say I could be
>> wrong about the pricing, I know they are going up and up in price
>> these days and I got mine about four years ago when they were even
>> more shunned than they are now.
>>
>> If you need to know anything in particular, write me. But get on the
>> Yahoo! group as soon as you can and ask there.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2007, at 10:08 AM, joe trussell wrote:
>>
>>> Darnit, folks, this Diesel Westy, just sittin' there, is haunting
>>> my dreams.
>>> I drive by it even when it's not on the way home.
>>>
>>> I have that sick feeling in my stomach like I'm going to make an
>>> offer as
>>> soon as Denver thaws out a little...
>>>
>>> And, I'm bored at work, and furthermore, I know absolutely nothing
>>> about
>>> diesels.
>>>
>>> How involved is the motor? I've rebuilt 1.6 and 1.8 inline four VW
>>> gas
>>> engines before. The 1.6 diesel is similar? I know that there's a
>>> Yahoo
>>> Diesel group, I think, but Yahoo Groups are blocked here at work...
>>>
>>> I'm following Ben's body restoration very closely. Not that I'm
>>> necessarily
>>> willing to take on this work, but it's nice to know what's involved
>>> if I can
>>> find an inexpensive body man.
>>>
>>> Joe T., looking for another insurmountable challenge...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Jeff Stewart <fonman4277@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>>> Reply-To: Jeff Stewart <fonman4277@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: '82 Diesel Westy For Sale in Denver (Glendale) CO
>>>> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 14:08:18 -0500
>>>>
>>>> <She said she wants $1800.00 for it, although she sounded like she
>>>> knew
>>>> that
>>>> it was maybe a bit of an unrealistic price. I think she'd be
>>>> open to
>>>> offers.>
>>>>
>>>> If she really wants to sell it, she should be. I paid $1,200.00
>>>> for my '84
>>>> Westy with seized motor back in September, and it has very little
>>>> rust and
>>>> a near perfect interior. I thought $1,200 was maybe a little high
>>>> until I
>>>> saw the condition of the body/interior. Jeff
>>>> Jeff Stewart
>>>> fonman4277@earthlink.net
>>>> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vwcampersmidatlantic/
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the
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>
>
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