Date:         Tue, 9 Jan 2007 19:03:13 -0800
Reply-To:     Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Subject:      "Orange" antifreeze / Dex-cool problems?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I ran across a reference to problems with the orange stuff and manifold gaskets in GMs and I found a bunch of stuff like this:

"the orange antifreeze is junk. it is called dex cool. it tends to hold an electric charge in the coolant it self ive seen up to 12 or 13 volts.the electricity and the coolant tends to eat gasket and aluminum materials. the damage is already done, but when you get the gaskets replaced change the coolant to the green stuff and i bet you will never have this problem again "

And:

http://www.wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/dontwasteyourmoney/20299ce7.html

And:

"Question: 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix with 23,000 miles. I have had a mechanic tell me that the intake manifold gasket has a history of failure and that my car is starting to show signs of the gasket failing due to white dust found on the manifold. I had another mechanic tell me that it was due to the orange antifreeze and if I do a complete flush and use the green antifreeze that the problem may not get worse because it is the orange antifreeze that is causing the problem (deteriorating the gasket). What do you think? I would like to get high miles out of this car (200,000) but if this is going to be a recurring problem, I need to think about replacing the car.

Answer: We have seen similar problems with cars that use the orange anti-freeze (coolant). To correct the problem, switch to green anti-freeze after flushing the system."

And:

"First off to answer about dex-cool the orange antifreeze is that if it gets a little low and air gets in the cooling system the antifreeze will break down turning to a rust color and clumps up causeing issues i have the orange stuff in my 98 s10 and have never had a problem i have changed it a couple times and have 130,000 on the clock I personally dont have issues with dex-cool although i know a lot of people do "


And:

"I also have a 99" Chevy venture with similar problems. I have been able to fix these issues myself without having to pay a dealer. I found most engine troubles due to the orange antifreeze and intake gaskets. My wife drove on a 200 mile trip with so much antifreeze in the oil the lifters collapsed. I flushed the engine oil 3 times and used oil additives and finally the lifters quit making noise. I then replaced the intake gaskets which was allowing the antifreeze to enter the oil system. That was 30,000 miles ago and have not had an engine problem since."

It goes on and on (in Google, anyway...) I've never heard of this before. Basically most of this stuff is useless anecdotal venting but at least two themes were heavily repeated; one being that about the faulty gaskets in the GMs which have supposedly been re-designed (well before 2005 as was cited in one quote above), and the other about any mixing of the green and orange causing the 'muddy clumping'. I don't really know what to think of the assertion in the first quote about the electrical charge.

I was looking into it because it was mentioned on the Chevy Van list that I'm on- I'm getting ready to do a leak-down test on one of my Chevys as I'm pretty sure I'm about to pull the top of the motor off but I thought I'd test it first. I'm sure at this point that I have an intake gasket leak and a head gasket problem is a more minor possibility. 

The thing is, I'm not using the orange stuff in the Chevy (I have no idea what any POs might have used), 'tho I am in the Vanagon and I probably would've put it in the Chevy after I was done with the work, so you can see my concern. I hadn't really thought about it in this context but since I went over to the orange coolant in the Vanagon a new-ish (less than two years old) thermostat has failed and the radiator has plugged up- common enough problems on the list, but then apparently so is switching over to the orange coolant so it kinda makes you wonder. I did flush the system extensively before the changeover but it's hard to say what may have been left in there.

Anyway I was wondering if anyone had any objective/empirical data about this- I'll be trying to get into it more as I have time but I thought I'd throw it out there and see if anybody knew anything more concrete about the issue.

Cya,

Robert