Date:         Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:34:26 -0800
Reply-To:     Old Volks Home <oldvolkshome@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Old Volks Home <oldvolkshome@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: "Orange" antifreeze / Dex-cool problems?
In-Reply-To:  <006a01c73463$de594ef0$657ba8c0@MAIN>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

While I don't have statistical or empirical data regarding the use of
Dex-Cool, I can say I have been using it for the past 9 years (Havoline
Brand) in "Ole Putt" without any detrimental effect to the engine in any
way.  It is regaularly flushed and changed every two years, as most vehicles
should be any as part of good ole fashioned PM (preventive maintenance).  In
fact, I'm half-way through my current two year period and having inspected
the cooling system a little over a week ago while performing maintenance in
preparation for my trip to Buses By The Bridge, the coolant still looked
brand new, no solids, no clumping I could see while running the engine to
check the coolant flow in the expansion tank..

When I changed out the engine and trans 3 years ago (they were due with the
mileage it's racked up,) I did change out the radiator because it was
plugged.  But the vehicle has always run a bit on the warm side since
purchasing it 1997 - the previous (2nd) owner used good ole standard
Prestone Green, for how long I really don't know.  With the radiator change
(and the thermostat when the engine was rebuilt), it's run cooler overall
when on the road since then.

I also used Dex-Cool in my ex H*nda Acc*rd for a couple of years with no ill
effects either.  Frankly, I think it's just poor quality gaskets, design and
materials on GM's part.  But it's my opinion without any
supporting/empirical data :-)
--
Jim Thompson
84 GL 1.9 "Gloria"
84 Westfalia 2.1 "Ole Putt"
73 K Ghia Coupe "Denise"
72 411 Station Wagon "Pug"
oldvolkshome@gmail.com
http://www.oldvolkshome.com
*See You At Buses By The Bridge XI*
**********************************
On 1/9/07, Robert Fisher <refisher@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> I ran across a reference to problems with the orange stuff and manifold
> gaskets in GMs and I found a bunch of stuff like this:
>
> "the orange antifreeze is junk. it is called dex cool. it tends to hold an
> electric charge in the coolant it self ive seen up to 12 or 13 volts.theelectricity and the coolant tends to eat gasket and aluminum materials. the
> damage is already done, but when you get the gaskets replaced change the
> coolant to the green stuff and i bet you will never have this problem again
> "
>
> And:
>
> http://www.wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/dontwasteyourmoney/20299ce7.html
>
> And:
>
> "Question: 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix with 23,000 miles. I have had a
> mechanic tell me that the intake manifold gasket has a history of failure
> and that my car is starting to show signs of the gasket failing due to white
> dust found on the manifold. I had another mechanic tell me that it was due
> to the orange antifreeze and if I do a complete flush and use the green
> antifreeze that the problem may not get worse because it is the orange
> antifreeze that is causing the problem (deteriorating the gasket). What do
> you think? I would like to get high miles out of this car (200,000) but if
> this is going to be a recurring problem, I need to think about replacing the
> car.
>
> Answer: We have seen similar problems with cars that use the orange
> anti-freeze (coolant). To correct the problem, switch to green anti-freeze
> after flushing the system."
>
> And:
>
> "First off to answer about dex-cool the orange antifreeze is that if it
> gets a little low and air gets in the cooling system the antifreeze will
> break down turning to a rust color and clumps up causeing issues i have the
> orange stuff in my 98 s10 and have never had a problem i have changed it a
> couple times and have 130,000 on the clock I personally dont have issues
> with dex-cool although i know a lot of people do "
>
>
> And:
>
> "I also have a 99" Chevy venture with similar problems. I have been able
> to fix these issues myself without having to pay a dealer. I found most
> engine troubles due to the orange antifreeze and intake gaskets. My wife
> drove on a 200 mile trip with so much antifreeze in the oil the lifters
> collapsed. I flushed the engine oil 3 times and used oil additives and
> finally the lifters quit making noise. I then replaced the intake gaskets
> which was allowing the antifreeze to enter the oil system. That was 30,000
> miles ago and have not had an engine problem since."
>
> It goes on and on (in Google, anyway...) I've never heard of this before.
> Basically most of this stuff is useless anecdotal venting but at least two
> themes were heavily repeated; one being that about the faulty gaskets in the
> GMs which have supposedly been re-designed (well before 2005 as was cited in
> one quote above), and the other about any mixing of the green and orange
> causing the 'muddy clumping'. I don't really know what to think of the
> assertion in the first quote about the electrical charge.
>
> I was looking into it because it was mentioned on the Chevy Van list that
> I'm on- I'm getting ready to do a leak-down test on one of my Chevys as I'm
> pretty sure I'm about to pull the top of the motor off but I thought I'd
> test it first. I'm sure at this point that I have an intake gasket leak and
> a head gasket problem is a more minor possibility.
>
> The thing is, I'm not using the orange stuff in the Chevy (I have no idea
> what any POs might have used), 'tho I am in the Vanagon and I probably
> would've put it in the Chevy after I was done with the work, so you can see
> my concern. I hadn't really thought about it in this context but since I
> went over to the orange coolant in the Vanagon a new-ish (less than two
> years old) thermostat has failed and the radiator has plugged up- common
> enough problems on the list, but then apparently so is switching over to the
> orange coolant so it kinda makes you wonder. I did flush the system
> extensively before the changeover but it's hard to say what may have been
> left in there.
>
> Anyway I was wondering if anyone had any objective/empirical data about
> this- I'll be trying to get into it more as I have time but I thought I'd
> throw it out there and see if anybody knew anything more concrete about the
> issue.
>
> Cya,
>
> Robert