Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:29:21 -0600
Reply-To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Boston Bob engines - Use caution
In-Reply-To: <005a01c73908$c9fad8d0$6501a8c0@yoursz6x6sefxo>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dan, we all feel for you. It's the pits when an engine goes bad,
especially early on. Had that happen on a couple of aircraft engines.
They had just been overhauled. at a cost of $15,000 each. Rings seized
in one and mains seized in the other.
Case #1- Error in the overhaul - wrong rings. You never ever put chrome
rings in a chrome cylinder barrel.
Case #2 - You never ever run an engine real fast in cold weather until
you know with absolute certainty that the oil has warmed sufficiently
not to have a big solid lump of hard oil in the oil sump and pickup
tube. Pilot error on that one. Engine seized solid as a rock at altitude
of about 300 feet. Pranged the airplane. Had to rebuild it as well as
the engine.
I burned a piston in the 2.1L WBX in my 88 GL. After a complete rebuild
and re-installation, the engine was run in the shop on Straight 30 wt
non-detergent oil for one hour, then the oil was changed and the filter
changed. It was run again for another two hours, and the oil and filter
were changed. After that it was run 100 miles under 50 mph. Oil changed
and filter changed. and run for 500 miles, and again on new oil and
filter for 1000 miles not exceeding 50 mph. At the 1600 mile mark the
oil was changed to a 15W50 and a new filter installed. The point of all
that was to make sure the engine was properly broken in. It now has
75,000 miles on it with no oil leaks but for a flywheel seal.
I have studied Bob's engines, I have talked to him numerous times, I
have talked to those who have used his engines. As a trained Aircraft
Mechanic myself, I do appreciate the degree of the man's expertise with
these Vanagon engines. It is very doubtful that you would find a better
re-builder anywhere.
My sense of it is that simply in the not knowing in fair detail about
the peculiarities of these engines, you inadvertently pushed it beyond
limits for a new engine. That is indeed unfortunante. I don't have any
suggestions as to how to resolve this, and get your engine working.. .I
do back Bob on this one.
Regards.,
John Rodgers
88 GZ Driver
Bob Donalds wrote:
> I did get your email and was going over it and preparing a responce when you posted this to the list
> you never mentioned the head gasket blowing just that the
> you felt I owed you 2K for cranks seal replacement
> and that you thought I had glued the seals in that I improperly installed them see your email below
> I have done hundreds of engines and never have I glued a crank seals in place the engine was not rebuilt with substantial error
> I am sorry for your trouble but as I told you I feel you have ring damage and that the engine was not set up right or it was driven to hard to soon
>
> to summerize
>
> you blew the heads off this engine and I am responceable for you driving it after the idiot lights came on
>
> you had a minor drain plug leak and a flywheel that weeped after you got off the highway
> due to piston ring damage
>
> I made no errors assembling this engine and I do silicone the head gaskets in place
>
> Bob Donalds
>
>
>
>
> Bob:
> I am considering describing my experiences with you and your rebuilt engine on the Vanagon List. Before I do that, I offer you this last opportunity to take responsibility for your error in the building of my engine. To date, the error of placing glue on the wrong sides of both main seals has cost me over $2,000.
>
> Do you have any response whatsoever?
>
> Will you take responsibility for your error?
>
> Will you compensate me for my costs related to your error?
>
> Do you deny responsibility for the main seals error?
>
> Do you deny that you built the engine in my van?
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DanielCRoberts@aol.com
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Cc: donalds1@verizon.net
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 5:19 PM
> Subject: Boston Bob engines - Use caution
>
>
> I relied on recommendations from this List and chose Boston Bob when I needed a rebuilt engine. Unfortunately, the results were disappointing.
>
> The Boston Bob rebuilt engine was installed in my 89 Camper GL (2.1 Liter) last spring. Almost from the beginning I noticed oil leakage from the oil drain plug and from the front and rear of the engine. The leakage was disappointing but at least did not seem to be severe when I left for an extended trip to southeastern US.
>
> Prior to the trip, I talked with Bob McDonalds (Boston Bob) and he assured me the leaks would probably dissipate over time as internal engine pressure lessened with engine wear. However, when I returned from my trip, my own mechanic examined my engine and showed me that both front and rear main seals had substantial leaks, as did the oil plug.
>
> I contacted Bob McDonalds again. He again suggested the problem might be with internal pressure related either to tight piston rings or to a collapsed engine gases recirculation tube (his speculation). He eventually sent a new rubber tube although my mechanic had assured him and me that the existing tube was OK. I installed the new tube anyway. He also sent several different oil drain plugs and several different oil drain plug rings.
>
> None of the drain plugs or drain plug rings stopped the oil leakage from the oil drain plug. The oil drain plug still leaked, as did the front and rear main seals.
>
> I sent an email to Bob asking him to provide some compensation for the oil leaks and their effect on the value of my Vanagon. He did not respond to my email.
>
> Next, while traveling in Colorado, the engine overheated when the alternator froze, breaking the belt that also supplies the water pump. I pulled off the road and turned off the engine as soon as the coolant trouble light came on. (However, the alternator trouble light had come on about one minute earlier and I did not pull over and stop as soon as that light came on.)
>
> I examined the engine and saw what appeared to be a blown front main seal. A subsequent examination of the engine by a 30-year Vanagon mechanic in Colorado confirmed my suspicion. Of course some would argue the fault was mine for not immediately turning off the engine when the alternator light came on. However, a subsequent investigation by the Colorado mechanic revealed that both front and rear main seals (head gaskets) had been improperly installed.
>
> Both front and rear main gaskets had a large amount of glue over the entire inside grooves--facing the engine. As a result, when the glue had dried, gaps were created, thereby allowing oil to push through the gaps. The Colorado mechanic said that the gasket failure was inevitable, given the way the gaskets were installed.
>
> Boston Bob has refused to respond to my subsequent emails in which I asked him to take responsibility for the leaking oil and subsequent blown gasket.
>
> Replacing the improperly installed seals cost me about $1,500. Of course this does not include the motel bills when I was stranded in Colorado for 12 days. Fortunately, I can say the front and rear seals no longer leak after being properly installed. The oil plug still leaks.
>
> This situation has been disheartening, as well as costly. I had been pleased to obtain a Boston Bob engine. I thought I was dealing with a reputable mechanic. Unfortunately, Boston Bob has refused to stand behind his product even though I can document and prove the engine was rebuilt with a substantial error.
>
> Because of the error and because of Boston Bob's refusal to be responsible for the error, I suggest other List members use caution when considering whether to purchase a rebuilt engine from Boston Bob.
>
> Dan Roberts
>
> CC: Bob McDonalds
>
>
>
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