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Date:         Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:01:35 -0500
Reply-To:     ------------- <VW4X4@VERIZON.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         ------------- <VW4X4@VERIZON.NET>
Subject:      Re: Our warranty WAS: RE: Boston Bob engines - Use caution
Comments: To: Bostig Eng <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <00da01c73a07$47d51f00$0301a8c0@beast>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Any idea as to how many inline 4 cly. VW engines were made of the exact same bolt in block 1.6, 1.7, 1.8 and 2.0 block? (from 1974 to 1999) Joe. W

Bostig Eng wrote:

>Ben Wrote: "Company like Vanaru and Bostig are looking for installer, the >have good warranty, i'm ready to install for them, if the engine breaks >after 8 months and they go out of business... who will be responsible, the >installer or the conversion company?" > >Had to comment, and I warn in advance this thing is LOOOOONG, and I wandered >a bit... Hopefully something good for you guys in here though... At least a >glimpse into my mania anyhow ha > >Anyhow we took this into account when putting our conversion together, >because this is something one should consider when evaluating any large >purchase. This is from our website: "We felt that if we were to buy an >engine conversion kit, we'd want to be able to maintain it without always >needing to go back to the kit "manufacturer" as it's not always possible to >do so. Instead, it made more sense to us to utilize the massive parts and >support-infrastructure already in place for the Zetec engine. We have spent >extra time to develop our kit with this "exploitation" idea in mind, and we >are very proud of the results." > >Say for example you have your worst case scenario, and we either don't make >it or say you've driven the 100,000 miles and you're out of warranty and you >break a rod with a 150 shot of nitrous(unlikely, but a fun what if). You'll >have to buy your own engine. We thought of that when looking for engines >since that is what we planned on doing on Brady's van anyhow(not the >nitrous, although the more I think of it the more fun it sounds). We knew he >would eventually need(or just want) another *younger* engine at some point >for some reason if he is going to beat the crap out of it for decades to >come. > >We chose an engine which saw such high production numbers to base the >conversion on, that the engine is inexpensive to replace *as well as* being >very well designed and very well built. Ford made 3,500,000 zetecs. To put >that in perspective, if you take every Subaru engine from every displacement >and engine family from the 1.6L to the 3.0H6 from the 15 years 1990-2005... >You are *still* a half million engines shy of zetec production numbers. >That's a massive difference. As a result, the high quality of the engine >itself and the development that went into it are had at bargain basement >prices for the zetecs. These economies of scale are what the OEMs are all >pursuing in powerplant, drivetrain, automotive-electronics, and platform >development now. It is the BEST way to deliver ultra high reliability(and as >a result a great warranty) and high performance/quality, while >simultaneously being low cost. This is the principle which is also allowing >rapid advance in many disparate areas of automotive development, don't put >all your eggs in one part of the car so-to-speak. It seems consistent with >general investment advise I've always heard and risk management books too, >I'll stop since I must sound stupid to the wicked experts we likely have on >these things on the list right now. Anyhow there aren't any economies of >scale to be had in just about anything vanagon, let alone conversions that >people may not be "brand comfortable" with but we cared about the benefits, >results, and potential more than the brand. > > The average price paid for zetecs is $400-$500 with less than 8K miles, >SHIPPED. This is what allows us to use awesome materials, fasteners, best >practices, and new parts(like brand new wiring harnesses) since we don't >have a $2000-$3000 high mileage rebuilt engine sitting in the middle taking >a huge chunk of the conversion cost. There is more money to spend on the >other details of the conversion, manufacturing, and for ongoing development >as well as support. We leverage a brilliant little engine, that can be had >at such a price as the engine itself is almost disposable. We always joke, >need new spark plugs? Buy a new engine. This is also important, because >total reliability is negatively impacted by any rebuild, rebuilds will never >be as good as a factory engine no matter how good a builder you are. For >example a factory robot or assembly machine can torque all the headbolts or >main caps simultaneously to many many decimal places more accurately than a >human, and the same applies to almost all aspects of modern engine >manufacture and assembly. Our approach is always deal in factory longblocks >or complete engines of excellent design and manufacture. We side with the >OEMs in wanting engines cheap/plentiful/robust enough to never require >opening and never require rebuilding, and engines that will outlast many and >be many times more reliable than those engines that are worth rebuilding >because they are otherwise unavailable or too expensive to get new/low >mileage. > >But there are other things to consider too. What the subie guys have is also >cool. THEY have the benefit of a loosely organized open source project. This >is another aspect which is important to consider. Centralized development is >great for rapid consistent development if you have high quality developers >and enough resources to keep them moving, but there is a safety net in >decentralized development since it can't be taken away from everyone at the >same time, even by one or several vendors going out of business. So to also >provide our customers with the same safety net that the subie guys have in >decentralized development, we also have a "Bostig Defcon 1" plan. Which is >simply the full and organized release of all of our development and >proprietary information to the protection of a GPL, and "open source" status >if the business itself were to fail. We are already getting some practice >and are getting ready to release our LMU mass air meter conversion >development info. We are going open source with it, and we're going to hand >over to Jon that's been working so hard on the same area recently. I think >an open source approach for this project, and in particular within this >community, may be a really great way of getting the maximum benefit to the >greatest number of folks, as cheaply and quickly as possible. It is also >going to serve as our first foray into the whole open source and GPL idea, >since we've often talked about making Bostig a non-profit anyhow. It would >be cool to have a non-profit that could organize resources for doing >something as specific as providing high-tech, high quality solutions to >"vintage" vehicle owners. Anyhow, the bottom line is this: > >Needing a new engine is not the end of the world, and actually should be >expected and planned for if you are a "long haul" type of vehicle >enthusiast, or if your wring every drop of usefullness from stuff you >own(ahem, Brady). A good warranty is good, and those that stand behind them >also wonderful, but it's even better if even in the worst case >scenario(which is the person that is standing behind the warranty is taken >out of the picture) *still* isn't catastrophic to your wallet. I've been >powned too many times by companies that can effectively shield my efforts to >get them to honor their own promises to not try to make my own efforts not >nearly as dependant on us as an entity to still provide value long after a >failure if it were to happen. I/We take every step possible to do the exact >opposite of screwing anyone to make sure we don't. Definately not >intentionally, but also not through lack of foresight, even if we happen to >end up totally screwed ourselves. Consider the worst, enjoy the best, such >is everything. > >Sorry for the long post, > > >Jim Akiba > >P.S. nobody mentioned that Bob's computer and outlook email totally sh*t the >bed recently either... If you don't get a reply, try a good 'ol telephone >just generally speaking... Most people have some trouble with their email at >the perfectly worst moment possible at some point or another. Bob is a >great guy, with loads of integrity, and an absolutely outstanding engine >builder if not the very best and most knowledgeable out there. If I had to >go back to a boxer I'd trust him with my rebuild. > >________________________________________ >Bostig Engineering >Engine Systems Voodoo >http://www.bostig.com/ >617.272.3800 > > > >


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