Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 00:08:08 -0500
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes@OPTONLINE.NET>
Subject: Re: Batteries don't die, they get murdered
In-Reply-To: <f06240807c1f52b96a9af@[192.168.1.100]>
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I have written many posts explaining my thoughts on the Optima. I guess I
was ignored.
Sealed batteries are great in theory. Experience tells battery guys
otherwise. Unless you have an application that just can not accept some off
gassing and a possible spill, (sail boat that may cap size), a conventional
flooded cell will take more abuse, and outlast an AGM or gel battery. The
main advantage of a normal battery is that when the electrolyte is driven
off, water can be easily added. So called sealed batteries do have vents,
(pressure relief), and once the solution wisp out, it is gone forever.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
David Etter
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 4:07 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Batteries don't die, they get murdered
WAS: the discussion on "BATTERIES FOR CAUNCKS"
Frank Condelli .."...was not impressed."
and
Lorne Busch has.."... been hesitant to go with sealed or AGM."
With heavyweights like those two, one begins to doubt Optimas claims...
As do most other Optima owners.
I too got burnt when a pretty YellowTop Optima
turned ugly simply through a lack of information.
If you know it's limitations, and having
done the math, you can decide whether it's worth
the extra money.
Battery life is directly related to how deep the
battery is cycled each time. If a battery is
discharged to 50% of capacity every day, it will
last about twice as long as if it is cycled to
80% DOD. If cycled only 10% DOD, it will last
about 5 times as long as one cycled to 50%
Most warranties and claims are usually
based on "Depth of Discharge" (D.O.D.) to levels
of only12.5 volts for wet-cell batteries and
only 12.0 volts for deep discharge batteries. In
many cases those levels can be reached in as
little as an hour, depending on load .
BATTERY VOLTS VERSUS CHARGE LEVEL.:
100% = 12.7 Volts
90% = 12.5 Volts
75% = 12.4 Volts
50% = 12.2 Volts
25% = 11.9 Volts
10% = 11.3 Volts
0% = 10.5 Volts
The above chart is pretty close; different
companies give slightly different rates.
Battery mfrs. avoid data such as "DISCHARGE and
CHARGE RATES, DEPTH OF DISCHARGE". They know that
if we believed batteries required far more care
than their "MAINTENANCE FREE" promotion
suggested. We would just buy the cheapest battery
possible from Costco or Walmart and be money in
over the long haul.
DUH! And that's what we are doing,
Below are a few links for study. If you are going
to spend all that money, time and effort in
buying the right battery for your RV then you
SHOULD spend some time learning about them.
Don't complain if you are offered the information and fail to read it.
Why I didn't see this information
beforehand ticks me off; I guess I only have
myself to blame. Who was it that said..."If you
think education is expensive, you should consider
the cost of ignorance"
GENERAL BATTERY INFORMATION:
http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html
http://www.wheelchairjunkie.com/batteryrules.html
http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/00.Glossary/
http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html
SPECIFIC BATTERY INFORMATION:
Is NOT readily available... unless you go
digging for it or read the very fine print.
e.g.Optima: YELLOWTOP
Float Charge 13,2 to 13,8 volts,1 amp maximum current.
Battery Charger.10 amps maximum,8-10 hours approximate.
Deep Cycle refers to applications that typically
discharge 60 -70% or more of the battery capacity.
PROMOTIONAL INFORMATION:
Credibility gap here.
http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/1266741.html
"The OPTIMAR is like no other battery found in
today's market. OPTIMA's unique Spiralcell design
offers the greatest technology in providing a
strong and clean power source that far surpasses
any of today's filled lead/acid batteries. With
OPTIMA under your hood, you can count on a longer
lasting battery life under starting and deep
cycle applications".
Conclusion:
If you buy an AGM battery, you should
also buy a proper 3 stage electronic battery
charger and learn to live within it's limitations
or else buy a "Low Voltage Cutoff" switch.
One last thing...it's a personal bitching point
of mine. I can't begin to count the number of
times I have seen brand new cars in the showroom
or car lot, being hooked up to a battery charger.
Whether they left the dome light or parking
lights on... the battery is DEAD, (not pining
for the fiords.) Sorry Monty Python.
I would never accept a new car with it's
installed battery, ask for a new one off the
shelf and witness IN PERSON, the replacement .
The lifespan of the original battery can never be assured to be as
advertised.
David Etter. (Optima yellow Top Victim)
