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Date:         Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:27:07 -0500
Reply-To:     Joy Hecht <hecht.joy@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Joy Hecht <hecht.joy@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: fridge problems-LEAST IMPACT TO THE EARTH
In-Reply-To:  <CAEOIPKOOCKNBBDDDMBPEEKJOAAA.jeff@vanagonparts.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Actually, the least impact way to manage your vanagon and its fridge is to leave them in the driveway and take a bike. Fat chance! (end of vanagon content :-)

I went through this carbon footprint calculator pretty carefully a while back. Unfortunately, it's designed for the UK, and isn't easy to translate for the US, as all of our units are different. I emailed the folks who run this one, and they don't know of any similar sites designed for the US. It would be a very useful tool, though.

Also the offset system is hard to verify. Their website says:

Your pledges to carbon footprint offsets are used to support projects that will reduce carbon dioxide emissions and alleviate global warming. These funds support projects for energy efficiency & sustainable energy technology development. Carbon Footprint supports a range of sustainable energy projects around the world, including wind power, solar generation, and biomass. These projects also provide jobs in disadvantaged regions of the World.

Unfortunately it is technically rather difficult to actually show that offsets are permanent. Great, a project plants a forest somewhere in Africa - but how do you ensure that that forest won't be cut down in 20 years? Or if the project has taken over some land for the forest, how do you know that the folks who previously used that land didn't simply go cut down trees elsewhere, so there's no net gain in sequestered carbon? These things are very difficult to ensure - and for them to work, they must be ensured in perpetuity. Also you are not buying specific trees or wind turbines or other technology - you are contributing to the budget for a project that will attempt to introduce such things. So you're mostly paying salaries. Salaries must be paid for such things to work, but if the project doesn't work, then you haven't accomplished anything. I work on this kind of project - it can be very hard to get them to work, not easy at all.

Reducing your own energy consumption is a better way to reduce your impact than paying for someone else to sequester carbon to make up for your consumption. But often more painful.

Joy

:::-----Original Message-----

:::From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf

:::Of Jeffrey Schwaia

:::Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 4:44 PM

:::To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM

:::Subject: Re: fridge problems-LEAST IMPACT TO THE EARTH

:::

:::If you really want to be eco-responsible, figure out the carbon footprint

:::of

:::your Vanagon (require content) and your other carbon dioxide producing

:::activities at www.carbonfootprint.com and take the steps necessary to

:::offset

:::your impact. In other words... plant some trees!

:::

:::Cheers,

:::

:::Jeff

:::

:::

:::-----Original Message-----

:::From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf

:::Of David Clarkson

:::Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:56 PM

:::To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM

:::Subject: Re: fridge problems-LEAST IMPACT TO THE EARTH

:::

:::

:::We should also consider the impact of the recycling cost of a lead acid

:::battery, that is assuming the battery is eventually recycled. Aren't most

:::of

:::the greenhouse gases that are contributing to global warming (careful-

:::don't

:::start a thread here) coming from the intestinal gases/byproducts of

:::bovine

:::animals? If your drinking beer aren't you also contributing to these

:::gases

:::as well. There's no perfect solution except possibly a solar powered gel

:::cell. Let's all have a cold one and think about it.

:::

:::David Clarkson (amateur zymergist)

:::90 Westy (always with cold beer)

:::

:::

:::-----Original Message-----

:::From: abagdan@SHAW.CA

:::To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM

:::Sent: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:34 AM

:::Subject: Re: fridge problems

:::

:::

:::>

:::> I still don't understand why anyone would want to waste unmeasurable

:::> propane

:::> when driving, instead of using battery power that is not used

:::otherwise.

:::> It's inefficient, too, adds to your greenhouse gas emissions instead of

:::> using a power source your van is creating anyway.

:::>

:::

:::Not true.

:::

:::It is cheaper and greener to run the fridge on propane than on gasoline.

:::

:::If the fridge is on battery power when driving, the alternator must work

:::harder to supply the power, thus burning more gasoline. (Same idea as

:::when

:::you have the air conditioner on).

:::

:::Cheers

:::

:::Alfred

:::85 Westy

:::________________________________________________________________________

:::Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and

:::security

:::tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the

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