Date:         Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:01:19 -0800
Reply-To:     Philip Zimmerman <philzimm1@OBERON.ARK.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Philip Zimmerman <philzimm1@OBERON.ARK.COM>
Subject:      Re: Batteries don't die, they get murdered
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

A compilation of this thread from the day follows.....
Serves me right for going to work today.... sheeze I missed out on all
this fun!

From:    Frank Condelli <RAlanen@AOL.COM>

  I don't think out gassing on modern sealed batteries is any threat to
us.

From:    Michael Elliott <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>

everyone loves things that explode!
Anyway, a lead-acid battery generates hydrogen and oxygen when being
charged rapidly enough to cause bubbling. Neither of these two gases
could be considered toxic.*

From:    Loren Busch <starwagen@GMAIL.COM>
RE: Outgassing
Based on experience I'm in full agreement with Frank that out gassing
from
the batteries is a non issue.

And BTW Mike, the occasional burning of of the hydrogen buildup inside
the boat,
everyone ducks down and the hydrogen is
lit, flame runs along the overhead briefly.

Mike E. wrote:
If true, that would be very excellent, but I reckon that this technique
would probably have all kinds of ugly side effects in a Westy what with
our fuzz-covered plastic overheads and foam rubber upper bunks and all.
Maybe the bURNINGvAN lads and ladettes would want to try it.

From: "mike ." <mwmiller@CWNET.COM>

WOO HOO a novel way of celebrating our national holiday.

From:  Kim Brennan <kimbrennan@MAC.COM>

Hydrogen burns with a blue (nearly invisible) flame. The Hindenberg
definitely burned orange/red, which is more indicative of other
materials....
Sometimes I wonder if my wife is riding around on some German
engineer's idea of a kind of a Russian Roulette ejection seat.

From:    Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>

> How was it determined that it was the battery that exploded?
IIRC the guy said it was basically a new battery.

From:    Mike Collum <collum@VERIZON.NET>
Loren Busch wrote:
I now there are a couple of Submariners on these lists, can you confirm
that this is true?

Mike Collum wrote:

Absolute myth!!

------------------
Man, you guys had some excellent fun messing around with battery Voodoo
today.
Blowing stuff up, flashing the overhead in Westfalia Campers, getting
Mike Miller all excited for the next fourth of July blow-up, Kim
worrying about ejecting his darling wife and Robert seeing brand new
batteries explode. Now, Frank and Loren have assured us all that
out-gassing is absolutely no threat to any of us and to top this off
o'l SC Mike C has blown-us-off, dispelling this as Myth... All I know
about any of this is: Hydrogen burns blue, and is nearly invisible....
and I am sticking to this!

Had a D-8 battery blow-up once. Now this is a Dennis Haynes sized
battery as D works with the really big stuff, not the little 40-50
amp/hr stuff in our Vans. Battery directly shorted between pos & neg
terminals, BANG! New or old they blow-up real good, would eject Kim's
wife clear out of her Vanagon (just like the hood on that Jeep) none of
us wanna see this Kim and being Valentines day and all how about
loaning the wife the Chevy for the rest of the day?

About this out-gassing thing... what is out-gassing? Like passing wind
or *arting perhaps? Now, we are all guys here (no gals have chimed-in
of this thread yet) we know about out-gassing. Bet we have all seen
what a serious out-gassing looks like when it blows-up and burns....
You all catch my drift here..... Batteries can do this too, just not
often and real rare in Vanagons YMMV... but never say never in this
life.... recalling when you least expect it, battery voodoo rises-up
and bites you.

Spent a summer humping portable navigation stations along the coast on
a hydro project. They ran on two group 27 batteries. Had eight stations
to keep running continuously, battery bank was close to fifty batteries
total. We flunkies on the project were constantly charging batteries
every friggen moment of the day and night. Parallel 16 at a time with
jumpers, turn on the honkin big charger and whatchem bubble and
out-gas. Real pretty sight other than when it rained.
We being a smart-bunch of electrical-geniuses though, covered-em with a
big blue Westie-type camping tarp. One night, a deck-hand smoken a
cigarette looked-in under that tarp. Kaah-Whaam!
Sure did look blueish to me Kim! Oh, the tarp still looked blue too.
The deck-hand's face went kinda white and his beard was considerably
shorter than when he had first looked under that tarp. Sure smelled
though. So in closing, batteries can and do blow-up sometimes but pose
little threat to us in our Vans and Westfalia's, just keep your
batteries to less than 16.... 8-)

Happy Saint Valentine's to one and all
Phil Z.
Campbell River,BC
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