Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 21:00:52 -0800
Reply-To: Kim Springer <kimspringer@RCN.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Kim Springer <kimspringer@RCN.COM>
Subject: Re: FS: 2.1 "DJ" code 112 HP WBX New/Rebuilt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bob,
No slam taken at all.
I think you are right on the mark with regard to your consideration of the
rods. They take the worst beating in pre and post ignition and they are a
weak point in these engine appearantly. Post ignition (detonation) kills
the pistons and can, in short time, destroy and engine.
I hope you do agree that there is a difference between pre-ignition and
post-ignition, and that their effects are quite different as well.
But consider this: even a lower compression engine run on a low octane fuel
can have these issues, so it's not just the compression ratio.
My father has a SP 1600cc aircooled that, when it heats up, detonates
(post-ignitions) quite regularly. He has so many miles on that engine you
would not believe it. I'm expecting a call that a head has blown off for
good one of these days...but it keeps on running. (By the way, I'll call
you when we need a new one.)
I did my measurements very carefully, deck heights, pistons, combustion
chambers, using a plexi disc with a 1/2" hole in it and a pipette(sp?) with
ATF. That's how I leaned to do it when I was working at a machine shop
working on E-production 1600cc Porsche engines.
I'm pretty comfortable with my numbers, so I guess I will see how long the
engine lasts, and I'll keep putting the best premium gas I can get in it.
All the best and keep up the good work,
Kim Springer
> Kim
> no slam intended
>
> I know this engine as the 10 to 1 engine and I have never done the
> measurements. I do now that 9.6 to 1 is not useable with todays fuel in a
> vanagon. I dont care what GO Westy says or does even they have backed off
> on the compression ratios of there engines. I say that from the
prospective
> of an engine rebuilder so this is not "what can I get away with". Rather I
> know that happens when you go into thermal overload "ping". The first
thing
> that happens is you loose power, the combustion chamber takes a beating
and
> the one part of this most overlooked is you can throw a rod due to the
> pounding the rod bearing see's.
> I have seen so many instances of ping eating engines in the short term
> (months not years) that I can asy with conviction that any ping is
something
> that must be avoided at all costs and todays fuels SUCK in no unsertain
> terms. They dont make a fuel that acomidates older cars peroid older
meaning
> without knock sensors
>
> Bob Donalds
> Boston Engine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kim Springer" <kimspringer@RCN.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 11:08 PM
> Subject: Re: FS: 2.1 "DJ" code 112 HP WBX New/Rebuilt
>
>
> > I'm not one to doubt you Bob, as you have way more experience in the WBX
> > world. But, that said, I had a DJ engine with only 70K on it from
Europe
> > and in order to federalize my truck, I had it rebuilt, switched it to
> > Digifant with a cat., changed the distributor, and I'm running that
engine
> > now.
> >
> > I measured everything when I did the rebuild. I cc'd the heads and they
> > were the same as stock MV. I cc'd the pistons and they were less deep
> > increasing the CR to 9.6:1. My cam grinding friend profiled the cam,
and
> it
> > is indeed stock as you said. Bad metal on the cam as one lobe was worn,
> > (not uncommon I hear). I found a good cam to work with and we ground it
> > stock. The engine has nice power, I'm sure not the 112i it used to have
> > with original ECU, different distributor and no cat, but it's good
enough
> > for me.
> >
> > VW calls 8.6:1 a 9:1. This is a 9.6:1 engine we are calling 10:1, but
> it's
> > not really 10:1 based on my measurements.
> >
> > I does need 92 or it detonates, (not a ping folks, it's a pong, and not
> > terribly on 89 either) but I hear no nothing under load at low RPM,
> climbing
> > a hill in 3rd (it's a 5 speed) next to a tall concrete wall as long as
it
> > has the 92 octane.
> >
> > All that said, let's see how long it lasts. It has about 15K miles on
it
> so
> > far with no problems. Based on my experience, I wouldn't be afraid to
set
> > up a DJ engine in this way.
> >
> > Kim Springer
> > White '89 Tristar (#7 off the assembly line)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Donalds" <donalds1@VERIZON.NET>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 5:25 AM
> > Subject: Re: FS: 2.1 "DJ" code 112 HP WBX New/Rebuilt
> >
> >
> > > I have a set of DJ 10 to 1 pistons the tops look like they got hit
with
> a
> > > shot gun blast, bits of piston missing from detonation. I do believe
the
> > > valve size is stock on all AMC heads unless they have been B. Bobed
and
> > the
> > > cam is the same as all other 2.1s
> > > The DJ engine requires 98 octane fuel. The differance in the rated
power
> > > comes more from the ECU than the increase in compression if you had
gas
> to
> > > match
> > > Even go westy knows 10 to 1 does not work and they tried
> > >
> > > Bob Donalds
> > > Boston Engine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Kim Springer" <kimspringer@RCN.COM>
> > > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:29 PM
> > > Subject: Fw: Re: FS: 2.1 "DJ" code 112 HP WBX New/Rebuilt
> > >
> > >
> > > > I carefully cc'd my DJ on my Tristar. It's 9.65:1, and you are
right,
> > it
> > > > needs premium.
> > > >
> > > > Kim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > You are certainly in the ball park with price, they also have MUCH
> > > higher
> > > > compression, like 10.5-1 instead of 8 or 9-1 so premium fuel is
> > important.
> > > I
> > > > think one could re-curve a 1.9 distributor to match. They are mainly
> > > auction
> > > > only.
> > > > > Jeff.
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: rpc <populuxe59@yahoo.com>
> > > > > Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:05 pm
> > > > > Subject: Re: FS: 2.1 "DJ" code 112 HP WBX New/Rebuilt
> > > > >
> > > > > > Jeff,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is just a long block, I don't know anything about it. The
> > > > > > mechanic secured it for me because my original motor has 185K
and
> > > > > > he thought going new was better/cheaper than rebuilding the
> > > > > > original. I didn't know anything about the codes and only last
> > > > > > night checked them in preparation for selling to ensure it was a
> > > > > > 2.1 L.
> > > > > > If you don't mind, what do they go for on ebay? is it a "store"
> > > > > > sale/buy it now? or do they auction them?
> > > > > > sincerely,
> > > > > > Chis C
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jeff Hogue <lnjhogue@EASTLINK.CA> wrote:
> > > > > > Hey, Do you have the ECU and distributor to make this package
> > > > > > complete? The 112hp comes from ECU, different ignition, exhaust,
> > > > > > valve diameter and cam grind. With AMC heads, the engine is
> > > > > > basically MV without the rest of the package. I see these bit
from
> > > > > > time to time on eBay.
> > > > > > Cheers, Jeff.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: rpc
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:15 am
> > > > > > Subject: FS: 2.1 "DJ" code 112 HP WBX New/Rebuilt
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Selling my "reserve" engine. Bought it through my local indi
> > > > > > > Vanagon mechanic (former dealer mech) for use in my Multivan
or
> > > > > > > syncro project. My MV is still going strong and haven't yet
> found
> > > > > > > a syncro camper worth while to have the mechanic install this.
I
> > > > > > > need the money more than a project.
> > > > > > > This is a "DJ" code engine, not an "MV". Has AMC heads. This
> > > > > > > engine was not offered in the US. A "DJ" 2.1 is rated at 112
> h.p.
> > > > > > > It is in a VW crate and I was under the impression it was
> new--not
> > > > > > > a rebuild. I can't be sure of this and not knowledgeable when
it
> > > > > > > comes to VW engines so it could be a rebuild from Germany or
> S.A.
> > > > > > > Sorry, no photos at this time. If there is interest I could
> > > > > > > remove it from the packaging but it is heavy, long block with
> fly
> > > > > > > wheel.
> > > > > > > I will answer Personal Mail Questions Off list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Price $2,500 obo
> > > > > > > Located in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
> > > > > > > Delivery possible within reason or freight shipping
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Chris C
> > > > > > > 920-660-7053
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>
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